Cults and the Culting of America

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's Socials

TikTok: @thescotloyd

Haley's Tiktok

💡 Key Takeaways

Veterinary medicine shares cult-like traits such as overwork as virtue, guilt-based control, and moral self-sacrifice.
Emotional compartmentalization is required—vets may euthanize a long-time patient then pivot to a joyful new-pet visit minutes later.
The suicide rate among veterinarians is alarmingly high, often tied to compassion fatigue and systemic overextension.
Capitalism reinforces burnout, framing constant labor and self-denial as moral goodness.
Many vets struggle to find balance between client care and self-care, often skipping breaks or feeling guilty for resting.
COVID-19 worsened burnout by increasing pet ownership while reducing staff capacity.
Financial misconceptions persist: veterinary procedures are costly but still drastically cheaper than equivalent human care.
Euthanasia ethics are complex—vets must navigate between mercy, owner intent, and lack of viable alternatives.
Empathy erosion in cults and capitalism parallels how systems dehumanize caregivers and animals alike.
Real solutions require institutional change, not just resilience training for individuals.
Simple kindness from clients can profoundly impact veterinary workers’ wellbeing.
Professional roles and uniforms can dehumanize caregivers—remembering their humanity matters.
Helping professions often attract perfectionists and empaths, making them more vulnerable to exploitation.
Both hosts link these patterns to broader social “meta-cults”—capitalism, productivity culture, and religious ideology.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Rapture Day
01:09 Meet the Veterinarian: Jo's Journey
03:09 Cults and Veterinary Medicine: Unlikely Parallels
05:21 Expectations vs. Reality in Veterinary Medicine
08:34 The Emotional Toll of Veterinary Practice
11:13 Navigating Client Relationships and Misinformation
15:14 Cults and Empathy: A Unique Perspective
18:41 The Ethics of Pet Ownership and Care
21:10 Coping Mechanisms in Veterinary Medicine
25:00 Community Support and the Burden of Service
28:09 The Burnout Epidemic in Veterinary Medicine
30:18 Understanding the Costs of Veterinary Care
35:28 Quality of Life Conversations with Pet Owners
43:28 Self-Care and Avoiding Burnout in Veterinary Practice
49:08 The Human Side of Veterinary Medicine

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: October 7, 2025

Listen on Website

Cults & The Culting of America with Knitting Cult Lady and Scot Loyd | ep51 | Candi Carpenter

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Daniela Mestyanek Young and Scot Loyd welcome musician and activist Candi Carpenter. The conversation dives into parallels between growing up in evangelical Christianity and high-control cult environments, with both Daniela and Candi sharing deeply personal stories.

Candi discusses their upbringing as a pastor’s kid in a gospel family band, the ways purity culture and religious control shaped their identity, and their long deconstruction journey. They reflect on how music, satire, and community have helped them reclaim their voice and selfhood after years of suppression.

The discussion touches on the loneliness of cult childhoods, the psychological effects of being taught constant fear of sin and hell, and how neurodivergence (autism, OCD) made them especially vulnerable to indoctrination. Humor and satire emerge as powerful tools of resistance—whether in music videos mocking political figures or in Daniela’s plans for a “cult baby musical.”

The episode closes with reflections on healing, therapy, medication, and the importance of building authentic community beyond transactional, conversion-driven relationships.

Candi's Links:

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's Socials

TikTok: @thescotloyd

Haley's Tiktok

Key Takeaways

Parallel Journeys: Both Daniela and Candi grew up under strict religious control, with performance and purity culture shaping much of their childhood.
Music as Survival: Candi uses songwriting to process trauma, reclaim identity, and connect with others who share similar experiences.
Deconstruction & Identity: Their exit from evangelicalism was gradual, involving moments of perspective shift (like viewing church rituals through outsiders’ eyes) and self-discovery (embracing their non-binary identity).
Neurodivergence & Cults: Autism and OCD traits made Candi especially susceptible to religious rules, scrupulosity, and fear-based control.
Purity Culture & Harm: Conversations highlighted how purity teachings overlap with exploitation, creating damaging relationships with sex, self, and others.
Satire as Activism: Through bold political satire (like their “American God” video), Candi critiques extremism and authoritarianism with humor.
Community After Cults: Online spaces like Candi’s Discord “Candyland” provide connection and solidarity for those who once felt isolated.
Healing Tools: Therapy, finding the right medication, and embracing joy (from late-night milkshakes to creative play) are key in recovery.
Unmasking & Authenticity: A central theme is moving from masking and people-pleasing (ingrained by cult culture) toward living authentically without fear of rejection.
Shared Mission: Both Daniela and Candi see their art—books, music, satire, musicals—as ways to expose control systems, build resilience, and help others heal.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Candi Carpenter and Cult Themes
02:51 Exploring the Impact of Cults on Identity
05:31 Deconstructing Religious Upbringing and Its Effects
08:38 The Role of Music in Healing and Community
11:19 Navigating Personal Trauma and Artistic Expression
14:07 The Intersection of Humor and Activism
17:23 Political Satire and the Role of Artists
20:03 Embracing Individuality and Non-Binary Identity
22:54 The Future of Music and Activism
25:44 Conclusion and Reflections on Fear and Anger
30:42 The Journey of Healing and Self-Discovery
34:23 Navigating Relationships Beyond Cults
37:16 The Struggle with People-Pleasing
40:21 Embracing Authenticity and Self-Acceptance
44:45 The Role of Therapy and Medication in Healing
49:37 Creating Art as a Means of Expression

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: September 30, 2025

Listen on Website

Cults & The Culting of America with Knitting Cult Lady and Scot Loyd | ep50 | One Taste Sex Cult

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young (“the Knitting Cult Lady”) interview Ruwan, a former member of OneTaste, a so-called “orgasm cult” centered around female sexuality and human connection. Ruwan recounts his two years in the organization, explaining how he was drawn in by its promises of intimacy and meaning, but soon became entangled in manipulation, labor exploitation, and coercive sales tactics.

The discussion highlights parallels between OneTaste and other coercive groups, including the use of sex as recruitment, redefining language to control members’ worldview, punishing dissent, and demanding lifelong commitment. Ruwan also reflects on the psychological toll of leaving, the social shunning he endured, and how indoctrination made it difficult to criticize the leader. The episode closes with reflections on cult dynamics, the dangers of committing one’s life to a group or ideology, and Ruwan’s upcoming memoir that ties his personal journey to OneTaste’s recent criminal convictions.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's Socials

TikTok: @thescotloyd

Haley's Tiktok

Key Takeaways

Sex as a recruitment tool: OneTaste initially used sexuality to attract members but retained them through promises of connection, meaning, and personal growth.
Labor exploitation: Members often worked for extremely low wages (e.g., $2/hour) under the belief that they were serving a higher cause.
Manipulation through language: Words like orgasm were redefined to mean progressively broader and more spiritual concepts, fostering a worldview unique to the group.
High performer recruitment: Contrary to stereotypes, cults often seek intelligent, articulate, and passionate individuals who can recruit others effectively.
Isolation tactics: Practices like banning “collusion” (sharing doubts) kept members from validating each other’s concerns. Dissenters were shunned or vilified.
Commitment pressure: Members were pushed to “commit their lives” by giving up finances, autonomy, or public loyalty, often under threat of rejection.
Good cop/bad cop dynamics: Leaders or lieutenants alternated between affection and criticism to manipulate compliance.
False empowerment: Despite its branding as a female empowerment movement, OneTaste remained patriarchal and exploitative, especially of young women.
Leader protection: The founder avoided blame by delegating harsh decisions, maintaining a “halo effect” that made criticism difficult.
Leaving costs: Exiting meant social exile, loss of community, and pressure to humiliate oneself in order to be accepted back.
Parallels to other systems: Comparisons were drawn to military indoctrination, religious cults, NXIVM, and Scientology, showing shared patterns of control.
Human vulnerability: Cults thrive by appealing to universal desires—belonging, meaning, and devotion to a higher purpose—while exploiting them for control.

Chapters

00:00 Isolation and Emotional Turmoil in Cults
33:10 The Legal Consequences of Cult Activities
36:09 The Dynamics of Power and Gender in Cults
39:01 Reflections on Cult Experiences and Future Directions

Produced By Haley Phillips

Published on: September 23, 2025

Listen on Website

Cults & The Culting of America with Knitting Cult Lady and Scot Loyd | ep49 | Cycle Breaking

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Daniella Mestyanek Young and Scot Loyd welcome Sydney, a member of the Cult Book Club, to share her personal story of growing up in the shadow of a multigenerational cult. Sydney recounts her family’s involvement with the commune Christ Circle in the 1970s–80s, her experience being homeschooled in a high-control, secrecy-driven environment, and the lingering effects of trauma passed down through generations.

She reflects on estranging from her mother, the challenges of being the “cycle breaker” in her family, and how medical neglect, secrecy, and MAGA ideology compounded dysfunction. Sydney shares her diagnosis with POTS, her healing journey, and how reading Daniella’s book gave her the language to process her past. The conversation highlights themes of secrecy, performance versus authenticity, generational trauma, and the courage it takes to leave and heal.

The episode closes with Sydney reading a moving reflection addressed to “cycle breakers,” emphasizing the exhausting but vital work of stopping harmful patterns and choosing a different path for future generations.

Sydney's Podcast:

Spotify

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's Socials

TikTok: @thescotloyd

Haley's Tiktok

Key Takeaways

Secrecy as a control tactic: Families and cults often weaponize secrecy to hide abuse and dysfunction.
Generational trauma: Even those who didn’t grow up directly in the cult carry the impact of their family’s involvement.
Cycle breaking: Refusing to pass trauma down to children requires conscious effort, vulnerability, and immense energy.
Medical neglect in cults: Distrust of healthcare often leads to undiagnosed or untreated conditions, deepening harm.
Authenticity vs. performance: Survivors reclaim agency by refusing to be “shiny showpieces” and instead choosing authentic lives.
Empowerment through language: Finding words to describe trauma and control systems is a crucial step in healing.
Healing through community: Safe environments, supportive partners, and shared survivor stories provide tools for recovery.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Culting and Personal Stories
01:56 Sydney's Journey: Growing Up in a High Control Environment
04:25 The Impact of Secrecy in Cults
10:21 Family Dynamics and Dysfunction
12:16 Breaking the Cycle of Trauma
18:34 Responsibility of the Cycle Breaker
20:41 Navigating Medical Denials and Personal Growth
23:18 Breaking Free from Toxic Relationships
25:56 The Impact of Cults on Parenting and Family Dynamics
30:13 Authenticity vs. Performance in Cult Environments
33:29 Finding Safety and Healing in New Relationships
35:51 The Journey of a Cycle Breaker

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: September 17, 2025

Listen on Website

Cults & The Culting of America with Knitting Cult Lady and Scot Loyd | ep 48 | Troubled Teens

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young engage in a profound conversation with Elizabeth Abeysekera, who shares her harrowing experiences in the troubled teen industry. The discussion delves into the impact of cults on children, the complexities of trauma, and the importance of communication in parenting. Elizabeth's journey highlights the need for better support systems for troubled teens and offers valuable insights for parents seeking help for their children. The episode emphasizes the significance of understanding family dynamics and the necessity of creating safe environments for children.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's Socials

TikTok: @thescotloyd

Haley's Tiktok

Takeaways

Elizabeth Abeysekera shares her experience of being kidnapped to a troubled teen camp.
Children often bear the brunt of harm in cult-like environments.
The troubled teen industry often uses negative reinforcement to control behavior.
Parents should look at their family systems when addressing children's issues.
Sending kids away can lead to isolation and lack of support.
Wraparound care is a more effective approach than sending kids far away.
Communication and trust between parents and children are crucial.
Trauma can manifest in various ways, and kids may interpret experiences differently than adults.
Parents should ensure their children have access to safe and supportive environments.
Legislation is being pursued to protect children in troubled teen programs.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Book Launch
01:50 Introducing Elizabeth Abeysekera
03:07 The Impact of Cults on Children
05:58 The Troubled Teen Industry
10:02 Elizabeth's Personal Experience
15:18 The Aftermath of Trauma
19:04 Understanding Troubled Teen Programs
26:25 The Ethics of Treatment in Troubled Teen Programs
27:53 Understanding the Diverse Backgrounds of Troubled Youth
30:29 Navigating Parental Guidance and Support for Troubled Teens
37:43 The Importance of Community and Family in Treatment
39:36 Resources and Alternatives to Traditional Treatment Facilities
44:51 Fostering Open Communication and Trust with Children

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: September 9, 2025

Listen on Website

Cults and The Culting of America with Knitting Cult Lady and Scot Lloyd | Episode 47 | The Cultiness of Nursing

This episode of Cults and the Culting of America features guest Jess M. (aka White Mess Express), a former nurse, alongside hosts Daniella Mestyanek Young and Scot Loyd. The conversation explores how the U.S. healthcare system—particularly nursing—resembles a cult in its culture, practices, and systemic issues.

Jess describes the hierarchical "rite of passage" culture in nursing (e.g., new nurses being called “baby nurses” and forced through hazing-like experiences). They highlight systemic contradictions: nurses are told to always be learning but punished for questioning authority, encouraged to self-sacrifice at the expense of their own health, and held individually responsible for systemic failures.

The discussion broadens to the U.S. healthcare system as a whole—its prioritization of profit over care, its inequities toward marginalized groups, and the emotional toll on providers and patients alike. Daniella and Scot connect these patterns to cult dynamics: degradation rituals, infantilization, blind obedience, toxic positivity, and punishment for dissent.

Jess shares personal experiences of disillusionment: discovering nursing’s promises of stability and meaning were hollow, dealing with disability from the physical demands of the work, and grieving the loss of identity and purpose after leaving the profession. They emphasize the need for gratitude toward frontline staff, patient self-advocacy, and systemic change.

The episode closes with encouragement: while healthcare workers may feel trapped in a “cult of medicine,” deconstructing the experience allows them to reclaim their skills and narratives. Jess also shares where listeners can follow their ongoing work on TikTok and other platforms.

Jess's Links:

linktree

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's Socials

TikTok: @thescotloyd

Haley's Tiktok

Key Takeaways

Nursing culture as a “cult”:
- Hierarchical structure with forced rites of passage (“baby nurse” system).
- Bullying, hazing, and degradation rituals normalize suffering.
- Emotional suppression is enforced—nurses must “put on a nurse face.”
- Constant demand for self-sacrifice, often leading to burnout or worse.
Systemic contradictions:
- Nurses are told to always be learning, but punished for questioning authority.
- Healthcare talks about being “systemic” but punishes individuals for systemic failures.
- Promises of good pay, benefits, and flexibility often clash with reality (mandatory overtime, long shifts, poor work-life balance).
Healthcare as a profit-driven business:
- U.S. healthcare prioritizes money over patient wellbeing.
- Marginalized groups bear the brunt—Black and brown people, unhoused individuals, women, the poor.
- Providers often have no say in pricing or systemic policies.
Impact on patients and providers:
- Patients face bankruptcy, neglect, or dismissal of their concerns.
- Providers internalize a culture of silence, mistrust, and emotional suppression.
- Many healthcare workers avoid seeking care themselves due to stigma or normalization of suffering.
Breaking out of the “cult”:
- Leaving healthcare can feel like grief or loss of identity.
- Gratitude from patients can be more meaningful than institutional rewards (“pizza party” culture).
- Patients can advocate for themselves by remembering they are the experts on their own bodies.
- Deconstructing cult-like systems allows survivors to reclaim and repurpose their skills and experiences.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Healthcare System's Cult-like Nature
02:53 The Hierarchical Structure in Nursing
05:43 Systemic Issues in Healthcare
08:35 The Role of Nurses vs. Doctors
11:23 Healthcare as a Business
14:29 The Impact of Privilege on Healthcare Access
17:29 Experiences with Vulnerable Patients
20:20 Expectations vs. Reality in Nursing
23:28 Emotional Toll of Nursing and Military Service
28:08 Navigating Emotions in Healthcare
31:02 The Patient Experience: A Nurse's Perspective
33:45 The Reality of Nursing: Expectations vs. Reality
37:47 The Cult of Healthcare: A Critical Examination
47:34 Self-Advocacy in Healthcare: Empowering Patients
50:33 The Grieving Process of Leaving Healthcare

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: August 20, 2025

Listen on Website

Cults and The Culting of America with Knitting Cult Lady and Scot Lloyd | Episode 46 | The God I Was Given book coming out soon!

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, Scot Loyd joins Haley while Daniela is away on her book tour. The conversation centers on Scot’s forthcoming memoir The God I Was Given: Looking for Faith After Losing My Religion, which blends personal memoir with philosophical and scholarly reflections on growing up in the United Pentecostal Church (UPC). Scot discusses the creative and emotional risks of releasing such a personal work, particularly the fear of being misunderstood or dismissed by current UPC members.

He shares vivid stories from his childhood in rural Arkansas, shaped by his religious grandmother’s influence and the paradox of being raised under a strong female matriarch within a patriarchal religious system. The discussion explores masculinity, gender socialization, identity loss after leaving a high-control religion, and the role of storytelling in fostering empathy and understanding. Scot emphasizes that leaving the church cost him his core identity as a “Pentecostal preacher,” but also gave him the opportunity to discover and cultivate other talents.

Throughout, Scot and Haley highlight the need for nuance in conversations about faith, deconstruction, and human identity, advocating for a broader cultural shift toward allowing multiple ways of being without harm.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's Socials

TikTok: @thescotloyd

Haley's Tiktok

Key Takeaways

Book Launch & Themes: Scot’s book is a hybrid of memoir and analysis, examining his upbringing in the UPC and the philosophical implications of faith, identity, and place.
Fear of Misunderstanding: He worries readers—especially current UPC members—may not engage with the book’s nuance, expecting it to be more condemning than it is.
Nuance Over Binary Thinking: Scot stresses that his church experience included both positive and harmful elements, and that faith should be open to scrutiny.
Matriarch in a Patriarchal World: His grandmother wielded significant influence despite strict religious rules limiting women’s roles, creating a confusing model of gender for Scot.
Masculinity & Socialization: Haley and Scot discuss how men raised as “choosers” in patriarchal contexts may struggle with rejection, and how rigid gender roles harm everyone.
Loss of Identity After Leaving: Exiting the UPC meant losing his defining role as a preacher, forcing a reevaluation of self and purpose.
Storytelling as Healing: Scot sees storytelling as a vital tool for empathy and connection, more impactful than sermons or lectures.
Values as Identity Anchor: Both discuss grounding identity in values rather than rigid self-concepts to avoid spirals and allow personal growth.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Book Announcement
03:27 Fears and Expectations of a New Author
11:25 The Influence of Geography on Faith
20:04 Navigating Patriarchy and Matriarchy
29:25 Masculinity and the Burden of Choice
31:30 The Burden of Expectations
37:48 Navigating Identity and Masculinity
43:09 The Power of Storytelling in Healing
46:34 The Cost of Leaving a Religious Identity
54:35 Values Over Identity: A New Perspective

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: August 12, 2025

Listen on Website

Cults and The Culting of America with Knitting Cult Lady and Scot Lloyd | Episode 45 | Sunday Brunch: The Musical

In this episode, Scott Loyd interviews the creators and a performer from Sunday Brunch: The Musical, a new theatrical work that humorously explores cult dynamics through a family brunch gone spectacularly wrong. While cult expert and regular host Daniella Mestyanek Young is absent due to technical difficulties, she sends in praise for the team’s viral “cult song,” noting how deeply it resonated with survivor experiences.

Guests Ernie Bird (composer/co-writer), Rachel Abramon (lyricist/co-writer), and Gabrielle Filloux (performer) delve into the creative origins, songwriting process, and comedic construction of the show. Originally written during a jobless winter break as a fun project between friends, Sunday Brunch grew into a layered musical exploring dysfunction, privilege, and the absurdities of cult logic—all grounded in levity and genuine empathy.

Their viral charm song features an escalating back-and-forth between two characters trying to one-up each other’s trauma—with one repeatedly revealing that every family member is, in fact, in a cult. The group discusses the delicate balance of comedy and respect, how cult themes naturally wove into the narrative, and how they may expand the story into a larger universe featuring the three-headed bear deity and warring cults.

The episode also explores broader insights into cult dynamics, including the “meta-cults” of capitalism, white supremacy, and toxic workplace culture. Each guest shares personal brushes with high-control environments, even if not officially in cults, reinforcing the pervasiveness of coercive systems in everyday life.

Keep up with the Musical:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sundaybrunchthemusical/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@erniebored
Ernie’s site: https://imerniebird.com

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

Key Takeaways

🥞 Sunday Brunch is about more than brunch: What began as a casual writing experiment became a thoughtful and absurdist musical that explores cult dynamics through comedy.
🎶 The “Cult Song” hit a nerve: The viral charm song resonated deeply with survivors—especially its honest portrayal of how absurd (and painful) cult logic can be when juxtaposed with “normal” life.
🎭 Comedy with respect: The team imposed structural rules (e.g., every chorus must mention the cult) that challenged them to find humor without mocking trauma—highlighting the difficulty and importance of “punching up.”
🧠 Art can offer catharsis: Humor becomes a vehicle for emotional release, empathy, and representation of marginalized experiences—including those of cult survivors.
🐻 There’s lore now?! The writers accidentally created rich backstory (e.g., cult wars, a three-headed bear god, a waitress married to a cult leader) and are considering a spin-off musical set fully inside the cult.
💬 Cult experiences exist on a spectrum: Even without direct cult involvement, all guests reflected on how systems—like oppressive workplaces or nationalist ideologies—can mimic cult behavior.
❤️ Creative partnerships matter: Ernie and Rachel’s deep friendship and comedic trust allowed for bold, weird, and eventually impactful storytelling.
📢 Support artists: Follow Sunday Brunch: The Musical on Instagram and TikTok [@sundaybrunchthemusical], and look out for their official demos coming soon to Spotify.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Sunday Brunch Musical
02:59 The Creative Process Behind Sunday Brunch
05:54 Character Development and Song Composition
08:56 Exploring Themes of Cults in the Musical
12:05 Comedy in Musical Theater
15:10 Personal Experiences with Cults
17:57 The Role of Art and Comedy in Society
21:09 Future Projects and Aspirations
24:01 Conclusion and Call to Action

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: July 30, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 44 | The Cult of Capitalism

This episode of Cults and the Culting of America features guest Kelvin, a political scientist and community organizer, in a deep dive on whether capitalism functions as a cult and how overlapping systems like patriarchy, white supremacy, and religion have historically reinforced each other. The hosts, Scot and Daniella, explore the evolution of these frameworks—from European colonialism and the doctrine of discovery to modern American politics—and discuss how these systemic beliefs sustain cult-like behaviors in society. The conversation covers the historical hijacking of Christianity, education as a control mechanism, the cult of Americanism, and the psychological and political strategies that uphold oppressive systems. The episode closes with an optimistic note about generational shifts, the decline of white supremacist capitalism, and practical advice on grassroots activism.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

🔑 Key Takeaways

Capitalism as a Social Framework (Not Just Economics)
- Capitalism is more than markets; it’s a way of being that shapes education, infrastructure, and social values.
- Systems like schooling and urban planning are designed to sustain capitalist efficiency, not holistic human development.
The “Cult of Americanism”
- American identity was built on the fusion of capitalism, patriarchy, and white supremacy, forming a powerful social order.
- These ideologies served as tools to consolidate and distribute power, functioning like a macro-level cult.
Religion as a Tool of Oppression
- Early Christianity advocated communalism and equity, but the Roman Empire co-opted it into a hierarchical system for control.
- Similar hijacking occurs today: religious rhetoric justifies policies that maintain systemic inequality.
Historical Continuity of Control
- From feudal Europe’s restricted education to modern book bans and anti-CRT measures, elites have always used education to control narratives.
- Missionary work historically served as an agent of colonialism, reinforcing white supremacist dominance.
Cult Dynamics in Modern Politics
- Donald Trump leveraged pre-existing ideological “mini cults” into a cult of personality.
- Fear-mongering and disinformation perpetuate obedience, especially among poor whites who vote against their own interests.
Intersection of Racism, Class, and Patriarchy
- Patriarchy incentivizes Black men’s alignment with conservative politics despite racial oppression, framing it as access to power.
- Economic myths—like the American Dream—sustain loyalty to capitalist structures even among those it exploits.
Signs of Systemic Decline
- Demographic shifts and younger generations’ progressive values suggest that white supremacist capitalism is in “death throes.”
- Cults collapse when they lose control of youth—an encouraging sign for future equity.
Action Step for Listeners
- “Find something you care about and show up where it’s happening.”
  Collective action grows when individuals commit to causes aligned with their values.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Book Launch
03:02 Exploring Capitalism as a Social Framework
05:44 Cults and Cultural Frameworks
08:51 The Cult of Americanism
11:50 Racism and Colonialism in America
14:52 The Evolution of Christianity and Power
17:50 Missionaries and Colonialism
20:59 The Arrogance of White Supremacy
23:45 Closing Thoughts on Education and Power
29:12 The Role of Education in Society
31:21 Questioning Authority and Personal Experiences
35:09 The Impact of Capitalism and White Supremacy
39:13 The Illusion of the American Dream
43:52 The Death Throes of White Supremacy and Capitalism
48:55 Shifts in Political Support Among Black Men
53:25 Hope for the Future and Community Engagement

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: July 22, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 42 | "Not My Church": Plausible Deniability in High-Control Systems

In this revealing and emotionally rich episode of Cults and the Culting of America, Cynthia Williams joins hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young to unpack her journey through—and out of—the United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI). Cynthia shares how, like many others, she once believed that her local church was different. The rules were strict, yes, but they felt spiritually justified—until the cracks began to show.

As Cynthia puts it, the realization came slowly: “I think it's probably just in the last two years… that I finally was like, wait a minute, I think I was in a cult.” That moment of clarity is a turning point in the episode, as the conversation explores how UPCI and similar groups protect themselves through plausible deniability. “Not my church,” people say—oblivious or unwilling to confront the broader systemic harm.

Cynthia describes how Bible college exposed her to both a deeper version of indoctrination and—paradoxically—the seeds of her exit. Through theology classes and critical thinking challenges, she began questioning the very doctrines that once gave her purpose. The episode also dives into her experience witnessing the tragic death of a teenage girl at Bible school—a loss that the church quickly co-opted into a martyrdom narrative, silencing Cynthia’s voice and rewriting the truth.

Alongside moments of grief and spiritual disillusionment, the hosts discuss cult tactics like toxic positivity, spiritual bypassing, gendered control, and the recurring pattern of falling into other high-control environments even after leaving religion. From the military to corporate America, Cynthia’s story traces how these systems echo one another—and how healing requires naming those echoes for what they are.

With warmth, honesty, and shared survivor wisdom, this episode is a candid look at what it means to say, “Maybe it was my church after all.”

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: Knitting Cult Lady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

Key Take-Aways

🚩 On Cult Dynamics in UPCI:

Rules varied by pastor but enforced absolute obedience, reinforcing the illusion of autonomy while maintaining tight control.
Women were subjected to extreme modesty standards, with the specifics often shifting—creating confusion and deep internalization of shame and obedience.
Plausible deniability ("not my church") was used to disguise systemic problems across UPCI.

👩‍🦰 On Gender & Power:

Women in UPCI were expected to be either angelic “saints” or demonized “Jezebels”—no in-between.
Women showing independence or intellect were often ostracized or tightly policed.
Cynthia’s racial identity and outsider status gave her marginal freedom to step outside strict gender molds—but also made her invisible in some ways.

🧠 On Deconstruction & Identity:

Bible school inadvertently helped Cynthia develop critical thinking, ultimately aiding her exit.
Leaving the group meant not just losing community, but also certainty, purpose, and a framework for meaning.
Like many ex-cult members, Cynthia found herself repeatedly drawn to similarly high-control environments even after leaving UPCI.

💥 On Trauma & Abuse:

The murder of a student Cynthia mentored was mishandled by the church, which spun the event into a martyrdom narrative—silencing Cynthia and distorting the truth.
This cover-up became a breaking point, highlighting the institution’s willingness to exploit tragedy for control and propaganda.
Cynthia shares how old coping strategies like breaking into church songs still emerge under stress—signs of deep conditioning and dissociation.

🧵 On Community & Healing:

A strong, emotionally safe partnership is key in Cynthia’s healing journey.
Daniella highlights the concept of being an “invisible immigrant”—growing up in an insular religious world without cultural references or grounding in the outside world.
They celebrate the comfort and solidarity found in the “ex-cult sisterhood”—a chosen family of people who get it.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cult Experiences
03:10 Personal Journeys in the United Pentecostal Church
06:01 Expectations and Restrictions for Women
08:46 Identifying Cult-like Behaviors
11:54 The Role of Education in Cult Awareness
15:05 Navigating Gender Dynamics in Cults
17:45 The Impact of Nostalgia and Shared Experiences
20:59 Emotional Healing and Reflection
23:57 Coping with Life After Leaving a Cult
30:20 Revisiting Trauma and Dissociation
31:55 Toxic Positivity in High-Control Groups
34:14 Tragedy and Manipulation: The Church's Narrative
39:40 The Impact of Violence on Faith Communities
43:23 Identity Crisis After Leaving the Cult
50:07 Life After the Cult: Finding New Paths

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: July 1, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 41 | Decolonizing Yourself with Hilary Giovale

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, host Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek-Young (KnittingCultLady) sit down with Hilary Giovale—a ninth-generation settler living among Indigenous communities in Northern Arizona. Hilary opens up about her journey from segregation to engaging deeply with Native communities, emphasizing how re-education and personal healing can unravel the lasting wounds of colonialism.

Hilary discusses the trauma inflicted by Indigenous boarding schools and the persistent impact of white supremacy on both marginalized communities and white culture. By practicing ancestral reverence and focusing on actionable reparations—like supporting sacred landscape protection and Indigenous-led initiatives—Hilary and her guests illustrate the transformative power of honest dialogue and community-based healing. For more on Hilary’s work, listeners are encouraged to visit her website, GoodRelative.com.

Hilary's Links:

Her Book: Becoming a Good Relative
Guide to Making a Personal Reparations Plan
An Indigenous Peoples History of the United States, by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies, by Resmaa Menakem
Reclaiming Our Indigenous European Roots, by Lyla June Johnston
Listeners can donate to the Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition to support the continued research and documentation

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

Takeaways

Transformative Re-education: Hilary shares her journey from a segregated existence to building respectful relationships with Indigenous communities.
Boarding School Trauma: The discussion highlights the deep and enduring pain caused by Indigenous boarding schools and their impact on cultural identity.
Confronting White Supremacy: The conversation emphasizes the need to recognize and dismantle the harmful legacy of white supremacy, both for marginalized people and within white culture itself.
Humility and Listening: Hilary stresses the importance of approaching new communities with genuine curiosity, humility, and a readiness to learn rather than impose.
Ancestral Healing Practices: The practice of ancestral reverence—such as maintaining an ancestor altar—is offered as a powerful tool for personal and collective healing.
Community-Based Action: The episode underlines the significance of supporting sacred landscape protection, Indigenous-led initiatives, and creating personal reparations plans as crucial steps toward healing.

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: June 10, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 40 | Scot wrote a book!

This week on Cults and the Culting of America, we’re turning the mic toward someone you all know well—our beloved cohost, Scot Loyd. With no guest this episode, Daniella takes the opportunity to spotlight Scot’s powerful personal journey and upcoming book, The God That I Was Given.

In an open and layered conversation, Scot reflects on his years inside the United Pentecostal Church, his rise to leadership, and what it meant to deconstruct the faith and ideologies that shaped him. He and Daniella discuss the gendered nature of cult experiences, the silence often expected of men, and how writing becomes both a weapon and a lifeline for survivors.

They also dig deep into the racist roots of Pentecostalism, the enduring myth of white Christian victimhood, and how cult dynamics echo through American politics today.

Whether you’ve been here since episode one or are just tuning in, this intimate episode offers a closer look at Scot’s story and the broader systems of power so many of us are still trying to untangle.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

Takeways

Even Survivors Can Be Complicit
Scot reflects on how he not only endured harm within the United Pentecostal Church but also perpetuated it as a preacher and leader. His journey involves confronting both victimhood and complicity—a nuanced look at accountability in high-control systems.
Patriarchy Shields Men from Cult Harm—and From Speaking Out
The conversation explores why fewer men write cult survivor memoirs: patriarchal systems often cushion men from the worst abuses and discourage emotional vulnerability, leaving their stories underrepresented.
Faith Deconstruction Is Not Bitterness—It’s Clarity
Scot addresses the accusation that leaving high-control religion makes you “bitter.” Drawing on biblical stories (like Naomi in Ruth), he reframes bitterness as a justified and even holy reaction to harm—and a fuel for transformation.
Cults Mirror American Systems of Power
The episode draws strong parallels between cult dynamics and systemic issues in the U.S., including white supremacy, evangelical nationalism, and the cult of personality around political figures like Donald Trump.
Telling the Truth Is a Radical Act
Both hosts emphasize the importance of sharing honest, unvarnished stories to give future generations language and context for their own experiences—and to challenge whitewashed versions of history.
The Tools Used to Indoctrinate Can Be Used to Liberate
Scot talks about reclaiming the skills he developed in church—preaching, writing, public speaking—to critique the very systems that shaped him. Daniella echoes this with her own story, highlighting the healing power of storytelling.
Cult Experiences Are Strikingly Universal
While each cult has its own doctrine or dogma, the episode highlights the common traits—performance culture, black-and-white thinking, suppression of autonomy—that unite cult survivors across backgrounds.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Book Projects
03:26 Exploring Gender Perspectives in Cult Experiences
06:37 The Unraveling of Beliefs and Personal Reflection
09:27 The Role of Education in Leaving Cults
12:20 Writing as a Tool for Healing and Reflection
15:36 Navigating the Complexity of Cult Narratives
18:24 Confronting the Charge of Bitterness
21:17 The Power of Personal Stories in Cult Recovery
24:25 The Importance of Documenting Experiences for Future Generations
31:56 The Burden of Representation in Cults
35:18 Historical Narratives and Cultural Spin
39:56 The Roots of Pentecostalism and Racism
44:39 The Legacy of Racism in American Christianity
49:40 Cult of Personality vs. Cult of Ideas
56:11 The Current Political Climate and Its Cult-like Dynamics

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: June 3, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 39 | "Satanic Panic" Facts and Fiction

Summary

In this episode, the hosts delve into the complex world of cults, focusing on the Satanic Panic and the influence of charismatic leaders like Franklin Jones. They explore the historical context of cults, the role of fear and control, and the lasting impact of cult experiences on individuals. Through personal stories and reflections, the conversation highlights the intricate dynamics of cults and their cultural significance. In this conversation, the participants explore the complexities of growing up in cult-like environments, the challenges of healing from trauma, and the nuances of personal identity shaped by these experiences. They discuss the importance of critical reflection on spiritual beliefs, the impact of family dynamics, and the struggle against misinformation and polarization in society. The dialogue emphasizes the need for understanding and compassion in navigating these difficult topics, while also recognizing the value of storytelling and fiction in processing and sharing their journeys.

Scott’s (guest) Links:

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

Takeaways

Cults often use fear as a tool for control.
The Satanic Panic was a significant cultural phenomenon.
Franklin Jones exemplified the charismatic cult leader.
Historical parallels exist between past witch hunts and modern cults.
Charisma plays a crucial role in attracting followers.
Fear of the unknown drives many cult narratives.
Cults can distort personal identities and experiences.
The impact of cult upbringing can last a lifetime.
Cultural context shapes the perception of cults.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background of Guests
03:16 Understanding the Satanic Panic
10:08 Cultural Reflections and Modern Parallels
12:55 The Role of Fear in Religious Contexts
17:26 The Impact of Fiction on Beliefs
23:01 Historical Context of Satanic Panic
30:02 Education, Critical Thinking, and the Binary Mindset
33:37 Escaping the World: A Discussion on Beliefs
34:06 The Illusion of Quick Fixes: Mastery Takes Time
36:15 The Heartbreak of Misguided Spiritual Practices
39:12 The Daily Struggle: Healing from Trauma
40:26 Faith vs. Fear: Understanding Belief Systems
41:22 The Power of Fiction: Engaging with Difficult Truths
43:57 Exploring Family Legacies: The Weight of Expectations
48:57 Navigating Polarization: Engaging with Contradictory Beliefs
50:51 Challenging Misinformation: The Role of Insiders
54:07 The Complexity of Good and Evil: A Nuanced Perspective
58:04 Cult Dynamics: The Influence of Upbringing on Beliefs
01:03:48 Caring for Aging Parents and Reflecting on the Past

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: May 27, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 38 | Starbucks and Corporate Cults

In this conversation, Daniella and Kasi explore the cult-like aspects of Starbucks, discussing Kasi's personal journey from barista to store manager and the emotional and psychological dynamics at play within the corporate structure. They delve into themes of recruitment, vulnerability, the illusion of family, leadership programs, and the impact of corporate culture on mental health. The discussion highlights the emotional manipulation and control exerted by organizations, drawing parallels to cult behavior and the sacrifices individuals make for their jobs.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

Audiobook: The Mind is Burning

Takeaways

Starbucks had a significant impact on Kasi's formative years.
Young adults are particularly vulnerable to corporate recruitment tactics.
The fun environment at Starbucks was a major draw for Kasi.
The concept of 'family' in corporations can be misleading.
Leadership programs often serve the organization's needs more than the individual's.
Emotional manipulation is prevalent in corporate events and culture.
Mental health struggles can arise from high-demand work environments.
Self-sabotage can occur when trying to maintain a positive image in a toxic environment.
The deification of leaders can create a cult-like atmosphere in companies.
Mourning the loss of belief in a caring organization is a common experience.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Starbucks Cultiness
02:31 Kasi's Journey with Starbucks
05:41 Recruitment and Vulnerability in Young Adults
10:56 The Illusion of Family and Loyalty
13:59 Leadership Programs and Organizational Control
19:46 The Echo Chamber of Corporate Culture
25:37 Influence of Recommended Reading and Ideology
27:54 The Cult of Education and Gratitude
29:46 Emotional Manipulation in High-Demand Organizations
32:20 Trauma and Recovery in Cult-like Environments
36:27 The Illusion of Trust and Loyalty
41:36 The Role of Emotional Evocation in Corporate Culture
45:26 The Cost of Self-Sacrifice in the Workplace
50:05 The Breaking Point: Mental Health and Organizational Pressure
55:35 Mourning the Loss of Belief in Organizations

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: May 13, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 37 | Caring For Relatives When They Didn't Care For You

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, host Scot Loyd and guest Jonathan Hirsch delve into the complexities of growing up in a cult-like environment, specifically under the influence of Franklin Jones. They explore the allure of charismatic leaders, the sacrifices made by children in these settings, and the long-term emotional impacts on individuals raised in such communities. Jonathan shares his personal journey, including the challenges of reconciling his upbringing with his current life, and the importance of understanding the experiences of cult kids. The conversation highlights the need for open discussions about the past and the recognition of the profound effects of parental choices on children.

Jonathan's Links:

Podcast: Dear Franklin Jones

Author Page

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Haley's Tiktok

Takeaways

Growing up in a cult can shape one's identity.
Charismatic leaders often create a sense of belonging.
Children in cults face unique challenges and expectations.
The evolution of a cult leader's ideology can be manipulative.
Personal experiences in cults can lead to lifelong impacts.
Understanding the past is crucial for healing.
The importance of open dialogue about cult experiences.
Parental choices in cults can lead to emotional sacrifices.
Cult kids often inherit their parents' spiritual pursuits.
There is a need for recognition and support for cult survivors.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cults and Personal Stories
06:33 The Influence of Franklin Jones
12:33 The Evolution of a Cult Leader
18:20 Childhood in a Cult
24:22 The Impact of Cult Life on Identity
31:01 The Cult Baby Experience
33:53 Understanding Parental Sacrifice in Cults
40:00 The Impact of Spiritual Pursuits on Family Dynamics
49:58 Navigating Relationships with Cult Parents
52:54 Caring for Aging Parents and Reflecting on the Past

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: May 6, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 36 | Yogaville

In this episode, Scott and Daniella engage with Brianna, who shares her profound journey through the world of yoga and her experiences at Yogaville, a yoga community that turned out to be more complex than it seemed. Brianna discusses her initial attraction to the community, the positive aspects she encountered, and the darker realities that unfolded over time, including manipulation, abuse, and the psychological toll of being involved in a cult-like environment. The conversation emphasizes the importance of trust, intuition, and the need for open discussions about both the good and bad experiences within such organizations.

Briana's Podcast

Surviving Satchidananda

Haley's Tiktok

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Takeaways

Brianna's journey began with a search for community and healing through yoga.
Yogaville initially provided a sense of belonging and support for Brianna.
Cults often exploit individuals during vulnerable times in their lives.
Positive experiences in cults can make it difficult to recognize abuse.
Secrecy and misinformation are common tactics used by cults to maintain control.
Brianna experienced both joy and trauma during her time at Yogaville.
Trusting one's intuition is crucial when something feels off.
Cults can provide a sense of purpose but often at a significant cost.
The psychological impact of cult involvement can be profound and long-lasting.
Advocacy and sharing stories are essential for healing and awareness.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
02:02 Brianna's Journey into Yoga and Yogaville
06:04 The Allure of Community and Spirituality
10:01 Unraveling the Dark Side of Yogaville
14:07 Experiences of Abuse and Control
20:02 The Struggle to Leave and Labor Exploitation
24:35 Control and Autonomy in Cults
28:44 Unraveling the Truth: Personal Experiences
32:44 The Role of Secrecy and Deception
39:29 Navigating Relationships After Leaving
41:04 Creating Awareness and Sharing Stories
42:45 Trusting Your Intuition and Finding Balance

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: April 29, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 35 | AA From an Addiction Specialist

In this episode, Scott Loyd and Daniela Mestyanek-Young engage in a deep conversation with Andi Wiseman about the nature of cults, particularly focusing on the military and Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). They explore the harmful aspects of 12-step programs, the intersection of addiction and systemic issues, and the importance of listening to survivors. The discussion highlights personal experiences with cult-like behavior in nonprofits and the need for a broader understanding of recovery beyond traditional frameworks.

Andi's Links

The Book: The Unsubtle Art of Unfucking Your Life

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Takeaways

Cults can be found in various societal structures, including the military and AA.
The 12-step model may not work for everyone and can be harmful.
Recovery is a personal journey that can take many forms.
Cults often manipulate vulnerable individuals seeking connection.
The nonprofit sector can exhibit cult-like behaviors.
Systemic issues contribute to addiction and recovery challenges.
Listening to survivors is crucial for understanding the impact of cults.
Secrecy in groups often hides harmful practices.
Challenging the status quo is necessary for meaningful change.
Individual action alone cannot solve systemic problems.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cults and Group Behavior
03:01 Exploring the Definition of Cults
06:08 The Role of AA and Military in Cult Dynamics
08:59 The Harmful Impact of 12-Step Programs
11:59 Generational Trauma and Cult Influence
14:59 Personal Stories and Systemic Issues
18:04 Navigating Nonprofit Work and Cult-like Structures
20:52 The Intersection of Individual Action and Systemic Problems
29:42 Systemic Issues in Recovery
36:18 The Intersection of Faith and Recovery Programs
40:06 The Role of the State in Addiction Treatment
43:20 Cults and Coercive Control
49:04 Understanding Trauma and Recovery
55:02 Promoting Open Conversations about Recovery

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: April 15, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 34 | Cult of Masculinity

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mesteneck Young engage in a profound conversation with Jack about the complexities of masculinity, the cultural constructs surrounding gender identity, and the emotional struggles faced by men in contemporary society. Jack shares his personal journey from a troubled upbringing to his work in men's circles, emphasizing the need for vulnerability, community, and a redefinition of masculinity that moves away from harmful stereotypes. The discussion explores the impact of societal expectations, the illusion of male superiority, and the importance of emotional expression and connection among men.

Jack's Links:

Website: https://healthecycle.com/

TikTok: @watchfulcayote

Youtube (His podcast is here) : @WatchfulCayote

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Takeaways

Masculinity is often defined by societal constructs rather than biological factors.
There is a significant difference between sex (male) and gender (man).
Cultural influences shape our understanding of gender from a very young age.
Parenting plays a crucial role in shaping children's perceptions of gender.
Communication styles differ between boys and girls, often influenced by societal norms.
The cult of masculinity imposes harmful expectations on men.
Anger among men often stems from unmet societal promises and expectations.
The narrative of male superiority is a damaging myth.
Men often sacrifice their emotional health for societal expectations.
Building healthy male communities is essential for emotional well-being.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Cult of Masculinity
02:11 Jack's Journey: From Trauma to Men's Work
04:03 Defining Masculinity: Sex vs. Gender
08:02 Cultural Influences on Gender Identity
11:34 Communication Styles: Boys vs. Girls
16:10 The Impact of Gendered Expectations
20:02 Navigating Masculinity in Modern Relationships
23:09 The Cult of Masculinity: Ideals and Influences
26:45 Angry White Male America: A Cultural Analysis
31:18 The Intersection of Politics and Masculinity
36:26 Understanding Privilege and Its Misconceptions
38:44 The Cult of Patriarchy and Its Promises
40:26 The Impact of White Supremacy on All Men
43:02 The Cost of Self-Sacrifice in Masculinity
50:11 Isolation and the Need for Male Community

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: April 8, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 33 | Improvement Gurus

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, host Scott Loyd and guest Daniela Mestenec Young engage in a deep conversation with Ben John about the self-help industry, misguided mentors, and the red flags associated with cult-like organizations. Ben shares his personal journey of being involved in a self-help group that he later recognized as a cult, discussing the tactics used by leaders to manipulate followers. The conversation explores the importance of discernment in seeking guidance, the emotional costs of leaving such groups, and the need for authenticity in personal growth. Ben emphasizes that true growth comes from within and that individuals should be wary of those who exploit vulnerabilities for profit.

Benjamin’s Links

Youtube

Book

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

https://theshecenter.org/

Takeaways

The self-help industry is largely unregulated and can be predatory.
Misguided mentors often use manipulation tactics to control their followers.
Vulnerability can be weaponized by cult leaders to create dependency.
Leaving a cult can result in significant emotional and relational costs.
Authenticity in personal growth is crucial; individuals should trust their instincts.
Red flags include leaders who discourage independent thinking.
Community and belonging are powerful human desires that cults exploit.
Self-help should not come at the cost of personal well-being.
It's important to recognize the difference between ethical and unethical sales tactics.
Personal transformation can attract predators, so caution is necessary.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests

02:27 The Rise of Misguided Mentorship

06:30 The Cult of Self-Help and Masculinity

11:44 Red Flags in Self-Help Groups

17:33 The Illusion of Vulnerability

23:20 Identifying Ethical Mentorship

29:20 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

30:45 The Charismatic Leader Phenomenon

32:11 The Transformation into Villainy

33:06 Awareness and Advocacy Against Cults

34:22 Navigating the Fine Line of Influence

36:13 Understanding Group Behavior and Manipulation

38:19 Creating Ethical Sales Practices

39:45 The Journey of Deconstruction

42:31 Authenticity in Storytelling

44:33 The High Cost of Leaving Cults

49:49 Advice to My Younger Self

51:16 The Permission to Just Be

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: April 1, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 32 | Satanic Panic Debunked

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scott Loyd and Daniela Mesteneck Young engage in a profound conversation with Lydia Knight, who shares her harrowing experiences growing up in a cult. Lydia discusses the complexities of her upbringing, including themes of racism, the satanic panic, and the psychological impact of fear and control within cult dynamics. The conversation delves into the process of healing and deprogramming, the importance of reconnecting with family, and the empowerment that comes from leadership and coaching. Lydia's journey of transformation serves as an inspiring testament to resilience and the power of reclaiming one's narrative.

Lydia's Links:

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/4bwvNC0

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Takeaways

Lydia Knight shares her experiences growing up in a cult.
The concept of 'apocalypticizing' reflects societal fears.
Racism and identity play significant roles in cult experiences.
The satanic panic of the 80s influenced many cult narratives.
Fear can create a false sense of comfort and community.
The importance of questioning and seeking truth in cult dynamics.
Healing from trauma involves deprogramming from harmful beliefs.
Reconnecting with family can be a complex journey.
Empowerment through leadership is crucial for women.
Transforming trauma into a source of strength is possible.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cult Experiences
03:25 Lydia Knight's Journey and Background
06:08 Racism and Identity in a Cult
09:21 The Impact of the Satanic Panic
12:00 The Role of Secret Knowledge in Cults
15:11 The Complexity of Abuse and Protection
18:02 Deconstructing Cult Beliefs and Systems
20:52 The Intersection of Personal and Societal Cultures
23:57 Reflections on Healing and Activism
31:17 The Creation of Fear and Control
32:46 Facing Fears and Planning for the Worst
36:29 Breaking Free from Past Programming
41:33 The Journey of Discovery and Truth
48:17 Confronting Lies and Seeking Proof
49:54 Reconnecting with Family and Healing
53:41 Transforming Trauma into Empowerment

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: March 25, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 31 | Cult Situation Report

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mesteneck Young explore the current political climate in the U.S. and its parallels to cult dynamics. They discuss the rise of cult mentality, the deification of leaders, and the implications of executive power. The conversation emphasizes the importance of community, collective action, and the role of art in resisting oppressive governance. The hosts encourage listeners to engage with their communities and resist fear-driven narratives, highlighting the need for resilience and creativity in challenging times.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Scot's TikTok

Takeaways

The current political climate reflects cult-like dynamics.
Fear is a tactic used by cult leaders to control.
Deification of leaders leads to dangerous governance.
Cults can be led by charismatic individuals or ideas.
The military operates under a different cult dynamic than political cults.
Executive power is expanding in ways that threaten democracy.
Community engagement is crucial for resistance.
Art and hobbies are vital during oppressive times.
Panic is counterproductive; planning and action are essential.
History teaches us that patterns repeat, but not exactly.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cult Dynamics
03:38 The Current Political Climate and Cult Behavior
06:40 The Deification of Leaders
09:33 Cult Language and Tactics
12:44 Military Culture and Cult Dynamics
15:28 The Intersection of Politics and Military
18:38 The Role of Women in Military Cultures
21:36 Concluding Thoughts on Cults and Society
29:09 The Acceleration of Authoritarianism
31:33 The Resilience of American Democracy
34:32 The Dangers of Pendulum Politics
37:36 Historical Context and Future Concerns
40:40 The Impact of Governance on Global Relations
43:37 Strategies for Resilience and Resistance
47:06 Community and Collective Action
51:25 The Role of Hobbies in Times of Oppression

Published on: March 18, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 30 | The DSM as a Weapon

In this conversation, Daniella and Katie Keech explore the intersections of cult dynamics, mental health, and neurodiversity. They discuss the misdiagnosis of mental health disorders in cult survivors, the authoritarian nature of the DSM, and the importance of self-definition and community support. The conversation delves into the complexities of plurality, trauma, and identity, emphasizing the need for a nuanced understanding of these issues in a world that often seeks to categorize and control individuals.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Many cult survivors are misdiagnosed with mental health disorders.
The DSM can serve as a tool for control rather than understanding.
Neurodivergent individuals often face unique challenges in cult environments.
Self-diagnosis can empower individuals to understand their identities.
Cults and fascist dynamics share similar control mechanisms.
Community support is crucial for those navigating identity issues.
Plurality is a valid identity that challenges traditional notions of self.
Trauma impacts individuals differently, and not all trauma leads to DID.
Cultural perspectives on identity can vary widely and influence understanding.
The importance of flexibility in thought and understanding human behavior.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cults and Mental Health
02:21 Misdiagnosis and Understanding DID
05:25 Neurodiversity and Cult Dynamics
10:03 Therapists and Cult-like Structures
12:02 The Ethics of Therapy and Self-Diagnosis
17:23 Exploring Plurality and Neurodivergence
31:10 The Illusion of Rationality
32:34 The Complexity of Human Emotions
34:47 Patriarchy and Cult Dynamics
36:42 Power Structures and Empathy
38:30 Community and Connection in Modern Society
41:17 Navigating Identity in a Changing World
43:42 The Dangers of Binary Thinking
45:43 The Impact of Control in Cults and Military
47:46 The Spectrum of Human Experience
49:27 Redefining Labels and Definitions
51:36 The Tactics of Control
53:24 The Role of Nuance in Understanding Cults
55:19 Evolving Perspectives in Mental Health

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: March 4, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 29 | Asian American Apostate

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mesteneck Young engage in a deep conversation with Scott Okamoto, who shares his journey from evangelical Christianity to questioning the very foundations of his beliefs. The discussion touches on themes of identity, race, and the struggles of belonging within high-control groups. They explore the dynamics of critical thinking versus apologetics in Christian education, the impact of the model minority myth, and the role of empathy in Christianity. Scott reflects on his experiences teaching at a Christian university and the challenges he faced while trying to foster a more inclusive environment. The conversation culminates in a discussion about the current state of Christianity and its intersection with social justice, as well as Scott's ongoing work in helping others navigate their own journeys out of high-control groups.

Scott Okamoto's Links:

Substack

Podcast

Book

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Scott Okamoto shares his experience growing up in evangelical Christianity.
The conversation highlights the struggles of identity and belonging in high-control groups.
Critical thinking is often stifled in Christian education, replaced by apologetics.
The model minority myth complicates the experiences of Asian Americans in evangelical spaces.
Empathy is lacking in contemporary Christianity, as evidenced by recent teachings.
Scott's journey out of evangelicalism was gradual, marked by many small realizations.
Interpersonal relationships can be a significant barrier to leaving high-control groups.
Scott's current work focuses on helping others navigate their experiences in Christian schools.
The conversation draws parallels between cult dynamics and the tech industry.
The hosts emphasize the importance of questioning and critical engagement in all areas of life.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Acknowledgment of Social Issues
01:55 Scott Okamoto's Journey in Evangelical Christianity
06:53 Struggles with Identity and Belonging
10:40 The Role of Argumentation in Cults and Christianity
15:13 Toxic Masculinity and Church Dynamics
18:24 Racial Dynamics in Christianity
23:44 The Model Minority Myth and Its Implications
30:03 Recognizing Our Place in the Movement
31:08 The Journey of Awakening
32:13 The Struggle with Faith and Reality
35:01 The Cop-Out of Prayer
36:28 The Politics of Panic
38:57 Interpersonal Relationships and Leaving the Church
40:05 Finding Community Beyond the Church
43:30 Empathy and the State of Christianity
44:44 The Podcast and the Book
52:41 The Cult of the Tech Industry

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: February 25, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 28 | Online Cult

In this episode, Scott Loyd and Daniella Mestyneck Young engage in a deep conversation with Taylor Marie, a mental health therapist and cult survivor. Taylor shares her experiences with an online cult, discussing the similarities between online and in-person cults, the recruitment tactics used, and the psychological manipulation involved. The conversation explores the dynamics of charismatic leadership, the exploitation of belonging and purpose, and the red flags that led to Taylor's eventual departure from the cult. The discussion also touches on the importance of healthy leadership and the potential for spiritual practices to exist without devolving into cult-like behavior. In this conversation, Taylor Marie shares her harrowing experience of being involved in a cult-like astrology group, detailing the emotional turmoil and moral conflicts she faced. She discusses the manipulative tactics of the cult leader, the fear of leaving, and the subsequent backlash she received after her departure. The conversation highlights the importance of questioning authority and the role of social media in exposing harmful groups. Taylor's journey of self-discovery and the impact on her family dynamics are also explored, culminating in a powerful narrative of resilience and personal growth.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Taylor Marie is a mental health therapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and cult recovery.

Online cults operate similarly to in-person cults, with differences mainly in communication.

Recruitment often occurs through social media platforms like TikTok, using charisma and confidence.

The sense of belonging is a powerful tool used by cults to maintain control over members.

Charismatic leaders often exploit followers' desires for purpose and belonging.

Red flags include isolation from outside information and constant negative comparisons to others in the field.

Healthy leadership promotes free thinking and allows for questioning and disagreement.

Cults often take credit for the successes of their members, creating a cycle of dependency.

Leaving a cult can feel like a crisis, as one's worldview is challenged and dismantled.

It is possible to lead in spiritual practices without coercion or manipulation. The breaking point often comes when personal values clash with group beliefs.

Questioning authority can lead to significant personal revelations.

Leaving a cult can involve emotional and legal repercussions.

Social media can amplify voices and expose harmful practices.

The aftermath of leaving a cult can affect family relationships.

Cult leaders often manipulate their followers through fear and guilt.

It's important to recognize the signs of cult-like behavior in groups.

Personal growth often follows the questioning of long-held beliefs.

The experience of leaving a cult can be isolating and traumatic.

Support from family and friends is crucial during the exit process.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cults and Online Communities
01:32 Defining Online Cults
05:11 The Evolution of Relationships in the Digital Age
07:19 Recruitment Tactics in Online Cults
10:18 The Dynamics of Charismatic Leadership
12:21 The Exploitation of Belonging and Purpose
14:24 Red Flags and Realizations
21:55 Healthy Leadership vs. Cult Leadership
28:21 The Crisis of Leaving a Cult
28:46 The Breaking Point: Values and Morals in Conflict
31:24 Questioning Authority: The Cult Leader's Influence
34:04 The Cost of Leaving: Emotional and Legal Retaliation
43:53 Going Viral: The Power of Social Media in Exposing Cults
50:17 The Aftermath: Family Dynamics and Public Scrutiny

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: February 18, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 27 | Childhood Torture vs Abuse

Content Warning: This episode includes descriptions of the abuse and torture of young children

In this episode of 'Cults and the Culting of America', hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young engage in a profound discussion with Ali Davis about the complexities of childhood torture, the distinction between abuse and torture, and the societal implications of these issues. They explore personal stories of survival, the role of the judicial system, and the cultural influences that perpetuate cycles of violence. The conversation emphasizes the importance of education, recognition of trauma, and the need for societal change to protect vulnerable populations, particularly children.

Connect with Ali Davis

Haley's Fundraiser

Click Here to donate to Haley's Go Fund me

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Conspiracies distract from real issues in society.
Torture is a calculated act, unlike abuse.
Judicial systems often fail to recognize torture.
Survivors of childhood torture face unique challenges.
Naming trauma helps survivors heal.
Generational trauma affects parenting styles.
Cultural norms can perpetuate violence against children.
Education is crucial in breaking cycles of abuse.
Survivors of color face additional barriers.
Society must change its view on violence against children.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Conversation and Current Events
03:19 Understanding Conspiracies and Their Impact
06:21 Ali's Journey: From Survivor to Advocate
12:42 Defining Childhood Torture vs. Abuse
17:43 Personal Stories of Trauma and Healing
24:53 Steps Toward Healing and Advocacy
28:03 From Despair to Empowerment
29:23 Understanding Childhood Trauma
31:05 The Complexity of Abuse and Torture
33:59 Cultural Conditioning and Violence
39:57 The Military and Psychological Impact
40:55 The Ineffectiveness of Torture
45:24 The Culture of Violence in America
48:03 The Intersection of Race and Trauma
53:11 Breaking Generational Trauma
56:35 Creating New Paradigms for Parenting

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: February 11, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 26 | Mediation and Marketing

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, host Scot Loyd and co-host Daniela Mesteneck Young engage in a deep conversation with Chloe Nwangwu, a brand scientist. They explore the concept of under recognition, the importance of branding in social influence, and the role of conflict mediation in understanding societal dynamics. Chloe shares her journey from conflict resolution to branding, emphasizing the significance of visibility and recognition in creating impactful change. The discussion also touches on the mythical norm, the dangers of echo chambers, and the necessity of diversity in combating misinformation. The episode concludes with insights into Chloe's methodology for building influence and the importance of acknowledging trauma in social movements.

Connect with Chloé Nwangwu

https://tialevings.substack.com/

Visibility Clinic

Visibility Assessment

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Chloe Nwangwu is known as the brand scientist.

Under recognition is a key issue in social dynamics.

Conflict mediation training informs Chloe's work.

Brands influence how others perceive and treat individuals.

The science of resistance is crucial in today's society.

Maintaining social norms is essential for safety.

Diversity is vital in preventing echo chambers.

Under representation stems from under recognition.

Chloe's methodology focuses on visibility engineering.

Creative projects can amplify important messages.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cults and Personal Journeys
02:27 Understanding the Role of a Brand Scientist
04:16 Conflict Mediation and Its Evolution
10:30 The Power of Branding in Social Dynamics
12:39 Defining Brands and Their Influence
16:10 Resistance and the Science of Influence
17:57 The Role of Representation in Social Change
20:04 Maintaining Social Norms Amidst Change
23:15 Building a Collective Resistance
28:19 Listening to Marginalized Voices for Change
29:35 The Need for Rest and Healing Among Black Women
30:50 Understanding the Mythical Norm and Its Impact
32:51 Behavior Change and Cult Dynamics
35:08 Adoption Thresholds and Social Proof
37:30 The Dangers of Ideal Client Avatars
38:56 The Role of Diversity in Preventing Echo Chambers
41:32 The Importance of Equity and Inclusion
43:24 Under Recognition vs. Under Representation
45:27 Visibility Engineering: Building Your Ecosystem of Influence
51:59 Creative Expression and Cultural Commentary

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: February 4, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 25 | Post Traumatic Mistriss Syndrome with Amanda Gross

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniela Mestyanek Young engage in a profound conversation with Amanda Gross about the intersections of race, privilege, and healing. Amanda discusses her book, 'White Women Get Ready,' which explores the concept of Post-Traumatic Mistress Syndrome and the role of white women in anti-racist movements. The conversation delves into personal histories, the current climate of racism, the importance of community, and the challenges of navigating white privilege. They also touch on the impact of cancel culture and the role of arts in fostering healing and understanding. Throughout the discussion, the hosts emphasize the need for self-reflection, accountability, and the interconnectedness of liberation and healing.

Amanda's Links:

Book: White Women Get Ready

Recommended paired reading: Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome by Dr. Joy Degruy

Intagram: @MistressSyndrome

TikTok: @MistressSyndrome

Patreon: @MistressSyndromeBook

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

White women have a crucial role in anti-racist work.

Healing is essential for transformative change.

Understanding personal history is key to addressing privilege.

Community connection is vital for healing and support.

Cancel culture often replicates state violence and lacks relationality.

Perfectionism can be a form of self-hatred and harm to others.

The arts can facilitate difficult conversations and healing.

Accountability in relationships is necessary for growth.

Racism and white supremacy harm everyone, including white people.

Liberation is interconnected and requires collective effort.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cults and Anti-Racism
03:26 Understanding Post-Traumatic Mistress Syndrome
06:19 The Importance of Healing in Anti-Racist Work
09:26 Personal Histories and Their Impact on Activism
12:31 The Current Climate of White Supremacy
15:21 Surprising Discoveries in Personal Ancestry
18:27 The Role of Storytelling in Healing
21:22 The Disconnect of Whiteness and Community
24:37 Backlash Against Diversity and Equity Initiatives
30:20 The Power of Perspective: Learning from Black Women
32:17 Community and Spirituality: Resilience Among Black Women
33:14 Navigating Conversations: White Privilege and Listening
34:56 Courage in Relationships: Honesty and Emotional Safety
38:36 Shame and Growth: Deconstructing Cult Mentalities
40:36 Cancel Culture: Trauma, Accountability, and Community
43:19 Performative Regulation: The Dangers of Policing Each Other
45:31 Intent vs. Impact: The Importance of Acknowledgment
47:43 Building Community: The Role of White Women's Affinity Spaces
51:58 Art as a Medium: Conflict, Healing, and Connection

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: January 28, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 24 | IBLP and "Shiny, Happy People"

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young engage with Tara and Floyd, who share their experiences growing up in the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) and the Advanced Training Institute (ATI). They discuss the complexities of deconstruction from fundamentalist beliefs, the emotional toll of leaving a cult, and the impact on family relationships. The conversation also touches on the importance of emotional awareness in parenting and the healing journey after leaving high-control groups. Tara and Floyd reflect on their participation in the documentary 'Shiny Happy People' and the challenges they faced in sharing their story.

Tara and Floyd:

Instagram: @advocateaverage

tiktok: @advocateaverage

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Deconstruction is a personal journey that varies for each individual.
Cults often use contracts and strict rules to control members' lives.
The emotional cost of leaving a cult can be profound, affecting family relationships.
Parenting styles can be influenced by past experiences in cults.
Finding peace and healing is possible after leaving a high-control group.
The process of deconstruction can lead to a deeper understanding of oneself.
Cults often exploit labor and manipulate finances for their benefit.
Sharing one's story can be a powerful tool for healing and connection.
The importance of emotional awareness in parenting cannot be overstated.
Cults can be seen as criminal enterprises that exploit their members.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Journey of Deconstruction
01:33 Understanding IBLP and ATI
05:45 The Cult Debate: Is IBLP a Cult?
12:11 Navigating Different Deconstruction Timelines
18:27 The Impact of Parenting on Deconstruction
23:46 Sobriety and the Numbing Process
28:31 Emotional Suppression in Cults
31:11 The Birth of a Musical Concept
32:14 Living with the Pain of Loss
34:50 Navigating Family Relationships Post-Cult
37:18 The Complexity of Conditional Love
40:13 The Struggle of Acceptance and Identity
43:12 The Irony of Family Dynamics
46:22 Addiction to Certainty and Superiority
49:15 Finding Peace in Acceptance
53:05 The Journey of Healing and Advocacy

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: January 21, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 23 | Tia Levings Author of "A Well Trained Wife"

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella engage with Tia Levings, a New York Times bestselling author and cult survivor. They discuss Tia's journey of writing her memoir, the impact of Christian patriarchy, and the allure of traditionalism in modern society. Tia shares her insights on the dynamics of complementarianism, the consequences of perfectionism, and the importance of storytelling in healing. The conversation emphasizes the need for awareness and empowerment among those affected by high-control groups, while also exploring the complexities of societal change and the role of women in shaping the future.

Tia's Links

https://tialevings.com/

Instagram @tialevingswriter

Threads @tialevingswriter

TikTok @tialevingswriter

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Tia's book started as therapeutic journals recommended by her therapist.

The journey to writing a memoir can take years and evolve over time.

Christian patriarchy influences many aspects of American culture.

The concept of a 'cult without walls' highlights the pervasive nature of these deologies.

Traditionalism can appear attractive but often masks deeper issues.

Perfectionism is a significant burden for survivors of cults.

The most vulnerable individuals often bear the brunt of abuse in high-control groups.

Hope and empowerment are crucial in the face of societal chaos.

People should always come before ideas in any belief system.

Bitterness can serve as a powerful tool for healing and empowerment.

Sound Bites

"Welcome to 2025: A New Beginning"
"It took years to tell my story"
"Hope is stubborn and necessary"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context of 2025
03:39 The Journey to Writing a Memoir
06:25 The Impact of Christian Patriarchy
09:30 The Connection Between Personal Experience and Cultural Issues
12:25 The Allure of Traditional Gender Roles
15:27 Nostalgia and Misconceptions of the Past
18:15 Facing the Truth of Domestic Discipline
21:30 The Importance of Sharing Stories
24:14 The Dynamics of Complementarianism
27:14 Recognizing Abuse and Empowering Individuals
31:20 Breaking Free from Perfectionism
33:39 Childhood Vulnerability in Cults
35:53 The Future of Cults and Youth Movements
37:18 Chaos and Fundamentalism
38:02 Narcissism and Cult Leadership
39:29 Women’s Empowerment and Resistance
40:27 Surviving Authoritarianism
41:53 The Power of Storytelling
43:16 Bitterness as Empowerment
52:59 People Over Ideas: A Fundamental Principle

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: January 14, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 22 | Teaching and Public Education

In this conversation, Daniella and Jack explore the parallels between cult dynamics and the education system, particularly focusing on how teaching can exhibit cult-like characteristics. They discuss the impact of masculinity, patriarchy, and the control of children within educational settings. The conversation delves into the degradation ceremonies present in both cults and schools, the role of punishment in hierarchical systems, and the importance of unstructured outdoor time for child development. They also address the exploitation of teachers' labor, the purpose of education in society, and the need for resistance against oppressive structures. Ultimately, they emphasize the importance of community action and hope for a better future.

Jack's Links:

Website: https://healthecycle.com/

TikTok: @watchfulcayote

Youtube: @WatchfulCayote

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Teaching can exhibit cult-like characteristics.
Masculinity is viewed as a cult in modern society.
Patriarchy is a foundational cult system.
Degradation ceremonies are common in both cults and schools.
Children are difficult to brainwash due to their developmental stage.
Self-sacrifice is a significant expectation in teaching.
Education often discourages pushing back against authority.
The current education system breaks individual identity.
Community action is essential for change.
Hope for the future is vital in resisting oppressive systems.

Sound Bites

"Teaching might be a little bit culty."
"Masculinity today is a cult."
"Hope for the future is essential."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cult Dynamics in Education
02:57 Exploring Masculinity as a Cult
06:01 The Role of Patriarchy in Cult Structures
08:47 Degradation Ceremonies and Control Mechanisms
12:04 The Us vs. Them Mentality in Education
15:08 The Impact of Childhood Environment on Identity
18:01 Authority Figures and Internalized Hierarchies
20:59 The Sacred Assumption of Education
24:09 Democratic Education vs. Traditional Models
27:12 Self-Sacrifice and Labor Exploitation
30:03 The Broader Mechanism of Capitalist Exploitation
32:57 Comparisons to Historical Dictatorships
38:30 The State of Education and Social Services
41:01 The Purpose and History of Education
45:04 The Impact of Education on Identity and Agency
48:52 Challenging the Sacred Assumption of Capitalism
53:31 Resistance and the Role of Education
59:50 Pathways to Change and the Future of Education

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: January 7, 2025

Listen on Website

Episode 21 | Spiritual Abuse and Single Family Cults

In this episode, Dr. Jamie Marich discusses her experiences with spiritual abuse and the dynamics of cults, emphasizing the importance of understanding these issues in therapy. She shares her personal journey of growing up in a high-demand religious environment, the impact of family dynamics, and her path to recovery from addiction. The conversation highlights the significance of storytelling and community support in healing, as well as the role of writing as a therapeutic tool. Dr. Marich also addresses the challenges faced by individuals leaving cult-like environments and the need for mental health professionals to recognize and address spiritual abuse.

Dr. Marich's Links:

Link to spiritual memoir writing course we discussed in the interview,

Memoir Writing as Spiritual Practice starting January 14

bit.ly/3zbezeL

Link for purchase options on You Lied to Me About God: A Memoir

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/760810/you-lied-to-me-about-god-by-jamie-marich-phd/

Websites:

www.jamiemarich.com

www.redefinetherapy.com

www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com

Socials:

IG @drjamiem

TT @traumatherapistrants

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Scot's Links

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Spiritual abuse is often overlooked in therapy.
Cults use religion as a tool for control.
Personal experiences can inform professional practice.
Storytelling is a powerful healing tool.
Community support is crucial for recovery.
Addiction can stem from unprocessed trauma.
High-demand religions can create toxic family dynamics.
Writing can be a form of spiritual practice.
Understanding cult dynamics helps in healing.
There is a growing movement against high-demand religions.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Spiritual Insights
06:16 Understanding Cult Dynamics
12:30 The Impact of High-Control Groups
18:19 The Intersection of Religion and Mental Health
24:24 Finding Healing Through Connection
30:26 Concluding Thoughts on Healing and Growth
35:30 Navigating Academia and High Control Environments
44:35 Memoir as a Tool for Healing
53:06 Building Community and Resources for Healing

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: December 17, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 20 | Recovering from Purity Culture

In this conversation, Maddie Jo Cowsert shares her journey from growing up in evangelical purity culture to navigating her identity and sexuality in New York City. She discusses the complexities of deconstruction, the impact of family support, and her reflections on wealth and the behavior of rich people. The dialogue highlights the shared experiences of those who have left high-control groups and the ongoing search for belonging and purpose.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Scot's Links

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Purity culture instills a sense of identity centered around marriage.
Moving to New York City can be a significant culture shock.
Dating in a secular environment presents unique challenges for those raised in religious settings.
Family support plays a crucial role in the deconstruction process.
Wealth can create a disconnect in understanding real-life struggles.
Rich people often face their own insecurities despite their wealth.
Generosity among the wealthy can be genuine, but the system is flawed.
The pressure to conform to societal expectations is pervasive in both religious and secular contexts.
Deconstruction is often a slow and painful process of self-discovery.
Finding a new identity after leaving a cult-like environment is a complex journey.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Purity Culture and Personal Background
03:29 The Spectrum of Religious Experiences
06:19 Cultural Shock: From Evangelicalism to New York City
09:12 Navigating Relationships and Sexuality
12:25 The Impact of New York's Dating Scene
15:21 Deconstructing Faith and Identity
18:30 The Role of Money and Prosperity in Religion
21:22 Social Dynamics and Group Behavior in Cults
24:22 The Internal Conflict of Leaving a Cult
27:14 The Journey of Rebuilding Identity
30:30 Conclusion: Humor and Healing in Deconstruction
31:07 Navigating Early Relationships and Cultural Expectations
32:49 The Impact of Purity Culture on Sexual Experiences
36:04 The Insidious Nature of Cultural Norms
37:28 Parallels in Trauma and Healing
39:34 Family Dynamics and Support in Deconstruction
42:23 Grieving the Loss of a Conditional Relationship with God
46:13 The Role of Education and Critical Thinking in Parenting
48:52 The Importance of Unconditional Love in Cult Recovery
51:35 Reevaluating Definitions of Love and Acceptance
53:32 Insights from Working with the Wealthy
59:27 The Cult of Capitalism and Its Implications

Published on: December 10, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 19 | Hasidic Judaism

In this episode of Cults and the Culting of America, Beatrice Weber shares her profound journey growing up in the Hasidic community, detailing the strict beliefs and practices that shaped her life. She discusses the impact of historical trauma on her community, the role of women, and her experiences with arranged marriage. Beatrice reflects on her decision to leave the community after years of confusion and struggle, and she now focuses on education reform for Jewish children. Her story is one of resilience, courage, and the ongoing quest for personal freedom and identity.

Daniella's Links:

You can read all about my story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Get an autographed copy of my book, Uncultured: https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Get my book, Uncultured, from Bookshop.org: https://bit.ly/4g1Ufw8

Daniella’s Tiktok: https://bit.ly/3V6GK6k / KnittingCultLady

Instagram: https://bit.ly/4ePAOFK / daniellamyoung_

Unamerican video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/YTVideoBook

Secret Practice video book (on Patreon): https://bit.ly/3ZswGY8

Scot's Links

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)

Other Podcasts

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Beatrice grew up in a high control group within the Hasidic community.
Understanding cult dynamics helped Beatrice process her experiences.
The Hasidic community has strict rules around gender roles and education.
Historical trauma from the Holocaust influences the community's isolationist mindset.
Women in the Hasidic community often feel like property in arranged marriages.
Beatrice's marriage was abusive, leading her to seek therapy and support.
Leaving the community was a complex decision, influenced by her children's well-being.
Beatrice is now involved in education reform for Hasidic children.
She emphasizes the importance of choice and individuality in her new life.
Beatrice maintains a connection to her cultural roots while rejecting fundamentalism.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
06:19 Understanding High Control Groups
15:59 Education and Control in the Hasidic Community
25:06 The First Night and Wedding Rituals
31:09 The Impact of Ceremonial Control
36:26 Navigating Marriage and Sexuality in Isolation
41:55 The Journey to Leaving an Abusive Marriage
47:23 Life After Leaving: Finding Purpose and Healing
55:05 Reconnecting with Faith and Spirituality

Produced by Haley Phillips

Published on: December 3, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 18 | 1 to 1 cults (Narcassistic Abuse)

In this conversation, Dr. Kerry McAvoy discusses her experiences with narcissistic abuse, the psychological implications of narcissism, and the societal impact of charismatic leaders. The discussion delves into the dynamics of cult-like behavior in politics, the challenges of cognitive dissonance, and the importance of personal identity and healing from toxic relationships. Dr. McAvoy shares insights on the spectrum of narcissism, the significance of vulnerability, and offers resources for those seeking to recover from abusive situations.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

From Bookshop.org

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Narcissism can manifest in various forms, including in political leadership.
Cognitive dissonance plays a significant role in justifying unhealthy relationships.
Healing from toxic relationships requires self-discovery and understanding personal identity.
Vulnerability is essential for authentic connections and relationships.
Cults often exploit human desires for belonging and acceptance.
The importance of setting boundaries in relationships cannot be overstated.
Self-reflection is crucial in recognizing narcissistic traits within oneself.
Healing is a process that involves learning to express emotions and needs.
Understanding the dynamics of narcissism can help in recognizing abusive patterns.
Resources such as podcasts and workbooks can aid in recovery from narcissistic abuse.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation
06:13 Personal Experiences with Narcissism
17:00 Cognitive Dissonance and Justification
23:06 Narcissism as a Spectrum
29:14 Transactional Relationships and Echoism
36:49 The Illusion of Uniqueness in Cults
45:31 Overcoming Emotional Numbness and Building Boundaries
51:16 Learning to Coexist: Embracing Differences
56:16 Resources for Healing and Recovery

Produced by: Haley Phillips

Published on: November 26, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 17: Is Alcoholics Anonymous Culty?!?!

Summary

In this conversation, the hosts and guest explore the dynamics of cults, particularly focusing on Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and its 12-step program. They discuss the coercive nature of these programs, the sacred status of AA, and the psychological impacts on individuals involved. The conversation highlights the importance of recognizing the tactics used by cults, the role of shame and judgment, and the need for personal responsibility and accountability. The emotional toll of leaving such programs and the significance of language in shaping identity and recovery are also examined. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the complexities of recovery from addiction, discussing the various systems in place, including Alcoholics Anonymous and Christian recovery houses. They explore the intentions behind these systems, the potential for abuse, and the importance of understanding one's options. The discussion emphasizes the need for empowerment and autonomy in recovery, highlighting alternative methods and the significance of informed choices.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

From Bookshop.org

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

McCauley Sexton is a consultant and creator of proprietary alternative recovery programs and manualized content for institutions and non profits, with over a decade of lived experience. As the co-host of the recovery reform podcast with Dr.Nichols he addresses the stigma and indoctrination within the recovery community and our culture as a whole.

Website www.sextonspace.com

Social media @sextonspace

Email [email protected]

Published on: November 19, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 16: Voices Unbound--Cults, White Supremacy, and the Silencing of Women

Summary

In this episode, Scot Loyd, Daniella Mestyneck Young, and Ali Henney discuss the intersections of cult dynamics, white supremacy, and the silencing of women, particularly black women. They explore personal experiences within cults, the impact of group behavior, and the role of narcissism in community spaces. The conversation also delves into the concept of misogynoir and the unique challenges faced by black women in various contexts. The importance of using one's voice to advocate for justice and the complexities of identity and intersectionality are emphasized throughout the discussion.

Takeaways

Ali's book 'I Won't Shut Up' explores personal experiences and broader themes of racism.
Cults often silence women and weaponize secrecy.
White supremacy operates similarly to cult dynamics.
Group behavior can be amplified in cult settings.
Narcissists often infiltrate communities seeking vulnerable individuals.
Religious groups can be breeding grounds for manipulative behavior.
Misogynoir uniquely affects black women in various spaces.
The 'skinny white woman' trope serves as a gatekeeper in many contexts.
Understanding intersectionality is crucial for advocacy.
Using one's voice is essential in combating injustice.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

From Bookshop.org

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Published on: November 12, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 15: Leaving the Cult of MAGA

Summary

In this conversation, Scott Loyd and Daniella engage with Haley Griffith, who shares her transformative journey from supporting Donald Trump to embracing liberal values. The discussion delves into the psychological aspects of political allegiance, the complexities surrounding issues like abortion, and the dynamics of cult-like behavior in political movements. Haley reflects on her experiences, the influence of friendships, and the gradual realization of the need for nuanced perspectives in political discourse. In this conversation, the speakers discuss the complexities of voting, particularly in relation to marginalized communities and the binary nature of American politics. They explore the importance of humanizing those with differing political views, reflecting on events like January 6th and the need for compassion in political discourse. The discussion also touches on the potential for change in Texas and the cult-like dynamics of the two-party system, emphasizing the need for a pluralistic society that respects diverse beliefs.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

From Bookshop.org

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Published on: October 29, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 14: Good Cult, Bad Cult

Summary

In this conversation, Scot Loyd and Daniella (KnittingCultLady) delve into the complexities of group dynamics, particularly focusing on the duality of groups as both beneficial and potentially harmful. They explore the societal fascination with cults, the nuances of labeling groups as 'good' or 'bad', and the inherent human need for belonging. Daniella shares insights from her experiences and research, emphasizing the importance of questioning group structures and the potential for exploitation within them. The discussion culminates in a list of ten commandments for creating healthy, functional groups that prioritize individual well-being over blind allegiance.

From Bookshop.org

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Published on: October 22, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 13: The Ends Justifies the Means

Summary

In this episode, Scott Loyd and Daniela Mestenec Young explore the complex dynamics of cult mentality, particularly focusing on the phrase 'the ends justify the means.' They discuss how this mentality manifests in various contexts, including military practices, religious cults, and societal norms. The conversation delves into the psychological manipulation involved in these systems, the dangers of binary thinking, and the importance of embracing uncertainty in life. Through personal anecdotes and broader cultural analysis, they highlight the need for critical thinking and the dangers of extremism.

Published on: October 15, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 12: Breaking Free: The Emotional, Financial, and Psychological Costs of Leaving a Cult

The conversation explores the concept of exit costs in cults, focusing on the United Pentecostal Church International and the Children of God. It discusses the high entrance costs, such as strict dress codes and behavioral expectations, and the financial costs of giving to the church. The conversation also delves into the psychological and emotional damage caused by cults, including the disengagement from skepticism and the fear of eternal damnation. The exit costs of leaving a cult are examined, including the loss of faith and the difficulty of rebuilding a new framework. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the lasting impacts of cults, such as social anxiety and the fear of judgment. In this conversation, Daniella and Scot discuss the mischaracterization of criticism and the all-or-nothing mentality within cults. They explore the concept of cognitive dissonance and how it plays into entrance and exit costs. They also examine the historical patterns of cults and the dangers of not deconstructing harmful ideologies. The conversation emphasizes the importance of deconstruction and the potential for finding joy and happiness on the other side.

Published on: October 1, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 11: Free Will or Control? Film Director on Cults, 'Holy Water,' and the Battle for Authenticity

Summary

Lucas Moctezuma discusses his upcoming film 'Holy Water' which is inspired by cults and explores the concept of free will within a cult setting. The film is set in a jury room where the jury deliberates the guilt of a religious cult leader who incited a mass suicide. The jury debates whether the cult members had free will or if they were controlled and manipulated by the cult leader. The film also delves into the psychological perils faced by cult survivors and the concept of doctrine over person. Lucas shares that the film is influenced by his mother's experience in a religious community in the 1970s. The conversation explores the challenges of depicting cults in film and the balance between sensationalism and authenticity. They discuss the importance of finding a balance that resonates with both regular audiences and actual cult survivors. They also touch on the difficulty of helping someone leave a cult and the need for compassion and understanding. The conversation concludes with a discussion about the filmmaker's GoFundMe campaign to support the production of the movie.

Published on: September 24, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 10: Nobody Wants to Work Hard Anymore (Exploitation of Labor)

Summary

The conversation explores the exploitation of labor in cults and its impact on individuals. It delves into the reasons why labor is at the center of cults, including the pursuit of power, financial gain, and the whitewashing of cult activities. The discussion also highlights the role of labor in high control religious groups and the manipulation of children to represent the group's ideals. The conversation expands to include the exploitation of labor in corporations and the systemic nature of labor exploitation in the United States. It concludes by examining the long-lasting effects of labor exploitation on individuals' mental and physical health. In this conversation, Daniella and Scot discuss the exploitation of labor and the pressure to constantly work. They explore how cults and other high-control groups use labor as a means of control and how this mindset is perpetuated in society. They also touch on the importance of self-care and the need to break free from the transactional nature of relationships. The conversation highlights the negative consequences of constant labor and the importance of setting healthy boundaries.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

From Bookshop.org

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Cults often exploit labor as a means of gaining power and financial resources.
Children are particularly vulnerable to labor exploitation in cults and high control religious groups.
Labor exploitation is not limited to religious organizations and can also occur in corporations.
The systemic exploitation of labor has long-lasting effects on individuals' mental and physical health. Cults and high-control groups use labor as a means of control and exploitation.
Society perpetuates the idea that constant work and productivity are necessary for success.
Self-care and setting healthy boundaries are essential for mental and emotional well-being.
The transactional nature of relationships can lead to disappointment and dissatisfaction.
The pressure to constantly work and achieve can result in burnout and negative health consequences.

Published on: September 17, 2024

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Episode 9: We Are the Best, Down with All the Rest (Us versus Them Mentality

Summary

In this conversation, Daniella and Scot discuss various topics including Daniella's recent trip to Portugal, the us versus them mentality, and the experience of visiting a nude beach. They explore the influence of group norms and how they shape our behavior and perceptions. They also touch on the binary thinking prevalent in American culture and the need for more nuance. The conversation highlights the importance of representation and diversity in leadership roles and challenges the traditional gender roles and expectations. The conversation explores the themes of us versus them mentality, appearance control, and the use of familial language in high control groups. It delves into the experiences of women in the military and the challenges they face in fitting in and being accepted. The conversation also touches on the topic of trans identity and the misconception that it is a cult. The importance of understanding and respecting individual identities and experiences is emphasized. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the dangers of us versus them mentality and the need for open-mindedness and acceptance.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Published on: September 10, 2024

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Episode 8: Cult Speak and Clichés; Unpacking the Language of Control

Summary

In this conversation, Daniella and Scot discuss the use of specialized language or vernacular in cults and high control groups. They explore how cults develop their own language to create a sense of belonging and isolation from the outside world. They also discuss the impact of language on communication and the difficulty of finding community after leaving a cult. The conversation highlights the manipulation of language by cult leaders to disguise abuse and control. They emphasize the importance of critically evaluating loaded language and cliches to uncover their true meaning. In this conversation, Daniella Mestyanek Young and Scot Loyd discuss the use of cliches and loaded language in cults and other contexts. They explore how cliches are used to shut down critical thinking and manipulate individuals. They also discuss the conflation of ideas and the use of binary thinking to control and dismiss dissenting voices. The conversation touches on the concept of conspirituality and the influence of language in advertising and politics. They provide guidance on becoming more aware of manipulative language and the importance of exposing oneself to diverse viewpoints.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Takeaways

Cults develop their own language to create a sense of belonging and isolation from the outside world.
Language is used by cult leaders to manipulate and control their followers.
Leaving a cult can result in a loss of community due to the specialized language and shared experiences.
It is important to critically evaluate loaded language and cliches to uncover their true meaning.
Language can be a powerful tool for communication and understanding, but it can also be used to deceive and manipulate. Cliches are used in cults and other contexts to shut down critical thinking and manipulate individuals.
Binary thinking and the conflation of ideas are used to control and dismiss dissenting voices.
Conspirituality refers to the use of language in health, wellness, and spirituality communities to manipulate and control individuals.
It is important to be critical of the language and messages directed towards us, including in advertising and politics.
Exposing oneself to diverse viewpoints and avoiding isolation can help guard against manipulation.
Watch out for dehumanizing language and us versus them mentality, as these are tactics used by cults to create a sense of superiority and wage wars.

Published on: September 3, 2024

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Episode 7: Isolation Nation--The Silent Tool of Control in Cults and Beyond

In this episode, Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young discuss the role of isolation in high control groups and cults. They explore how isolation is used to indoctrinate and control members, as well as the ways in which it can be subtle and pervasive in various organizations and institutions. They also touch on the dangers of echo chambers and the impact of social media algorithms on isolation and group dynamics.

takeaways

Isolation is a crucial tactic used by high control groups and cults to separate members from the larger world and its influences.
Isolation can be physical, but it can also be subtle and pervasive in various organizations and institutions.
Isolation is often accompanied by intense activities and exhaustion, which can create feelings of euphoria and forge strong bonds within the group.
Isolation can also be used to break down individual identity and make members more susceptible to indoctrination.
Isolation can be reinforced through dress codes, language, and prohibitions against gossip and negative discussions.
Isolation can lead to the formation of echo chambers and the reinforcement of groupthink.
Social media algorithms can contribute to isolation by filtering out opposing viewpoints and creating personalized echo chambers.
Isolation can have both positive and negative effects, depending on the context and the individual's needs and experiences.

titles

Isolation and the Formation of Echo Chambers
The Influence of Social Media Algorithms on Isolation

Sound Bites

"As soon as you deploy, it immediately becomes more culty."
"Love a good conference because you're just there surrounded by other people that have the same special interest topic as you."
"Doing hard things together is part of what bonds people."

Chapters

00:00Introduction to the Role of Isolation

03:02Isolation in the Military and Other Organizations

08:51The Intense Bonding of Isolation

13:21The Impact of Isolation on Identity

18:11Isolation and the Formation of Echo Chambers

23:52The Influence of Social Media Algorithms on Isolation

29:22The Dual Nature of Isolation

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)

Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

Published on: August 27, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 6: Take One for the Team (Self-Sacrifice of Members

In this episode of *Cults and the Culting of America*, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young delve into the complex dynamics of self-sacrifice within cults and high-control groups. Drawing from their personal experiences and extensive research, they explore how cults exploit their members’ labor under the guise of a transcendent mission, enforce conformity through appearance and attitude control, and manipulate emotions to maintain control. The conversation also touches on the parallels between cult behavior and practices in organizations like the military and corporate America, offering insights into the pervasive influence of cult-like tactics in various aspects of society.

The episode explores key themes such as cults, high-control groups, and the concept of self-sacrifice, delving into how these groups exploit their members' labor under the guise of a transcendent mission. The discussion also touches on the idea of total institutions, where conformity is enforced through appearance and attitude control, and emotional manipulation is used to maintain control over members. By examining parallels between cult behavior and practices in organizations like the military and corporate culture, the hosts highlight the pervasive influence of these tactics in suppressing individual identity and enforcing group dynamics. Topics like cognitive dissonance, patriotism, social control, and the manipulation tactics used by cults are also discussed, providing a comprehensive understanding of the psychological and social mechanisms at play within these environments.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

**Scot Loyd:** Welcome to the *Cults and the Culting of America* podcast. I'm Scott Loyd along with my friend Daniella Mestyanek Young, and she's written a book called *Uncultured,* which you should pick up. Both of us are cult survivors, and we're working through a list of characteristics that Daniella developed to help all of you, along with us, process and understand our cult experiences, as well as identify cults and high-control groups. So with that introduction, Daniella, which characteristic are we talking about today?

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Thanks so much for the introduction, Scott. Today, we are going to be talking about self-sacrifice. Specifically, in cults, there's the constant and continual self-sacrifice of the members. If you're just joining us, episode one has the whole list of my 10 characteristics that make up a cult, and we're going through each of those in detail.

Self-sacrifice is number four on the list, but it connects very directly to number eight on the list, which is exploitation of labor.

**Scot Loyd:** And you've mentioned before that this is ultimately what cults are all about—free labor, right?

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Exactly. When I heard cult scholar Dr. Janja Lalich say, "Cults are about labor," it broke my brain and gave me a whole different understanding of what I had experienced and why we were doing the things we did. Labor is your one inexhaustible resource. The cult leader is out for power, but the cult itself is about getting your labor. They tell you it’s in pursuit of a transcendent mission, which we covered in episode three.

In the Children of God cult, our mission was saving the world for Jesus before the end times. In the US Army, it was protecting American interests overseas. These missions are so grand and unquestionably good that they allow the cult and its leaders to constantly pull sacrifice from their members.

**Scot Loyd:** You sent me something to read today, and you mentioned a term—quoting Irving Goffman—called a "total institution." I think when we're talking about cults, they certainly qualify as total institutions that seek self-sacrifice to meet their needs and aims through free labor.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Yes, exactly. I was trying to figure out this category for like 10 years. In the Army, when we weren't deployed or away for training, we worked a 6 AM to 6 PM schedule and went home every day. It wasn't that culty. But as soon as we went away together, it became culty. I didn't know how to explain it until I heard of total institutions. Total institutions are places where situated people live and work together, separated from the world, with a formal overlay of life. The military barracks or deployments are textbook examples of total institutions. Other examples include prisons, mental hospitals, hospices, communes, or even a rich person's household like Downton Abbey, which I argue makes the royal family a total institution too.

When you're in a total institution, your job is to put the group first, to tamp down your own identity. That’s the cult experience. Growing up in it impacts your very personality formation, to the point that I was 33 years old when I realized I never got to form a personal identity. That’s the trade-off of growing up in a world where you're always second.

**Scot Loyd:** I remember growing up in the United Pentecostal Church and going to summer camp, where we were isolated from everyone. Total institutions require people to suppress their unique traits or identity. Being tired and exhausted makes people highly susceptible to emotional manipulation. That’s exactly what we experienced at these summer youth camps.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** That’s a perfect example of a total institution that you can participate in without committing your whole life. For the months you're at summer camp, it's very similar to when a military unit deploys for a year. Even in corporations, when you go off together for a weekend or a week at a yearly offsite, it’s more of a culty experience than regular work. The removal from the world is a significant part of it. Group norms become much more important and rigid when there’s no connection to the outside world.

**Scot Loyd:** That became very apparent at youth camp. Even if you weren’t familiar with the group’s behavior, a few hours at the camp, and you’d be acclimated to the group culture. You wrote something profound about how conformity is rewarded, and any kind of independent thought is punished. Whether it's in the Children of God, the United Pentecostal Church, or even the US Army, you quickly learn to acclimate, conform, and fit in to avoid standing out.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Exactly, not standing out is crucial. This is how they start getting you to self-sacrifice. It’s not just a side effect of cults and their mission; it's a primary part of breaking you down. The primary part of identity-breaking indoctrination is getting you into a state where you always put the group first without even thinking. In doing so, you're getting rid of everything that makes you, you. This is often achieved through powerful tools like appearance control and attitude control.

**Scot Loyd:** Let’s talk more about that. A lot of attention is given to exit costs in cults, but you talk about entrance costs, which include the regulation of hair, body size, body coverage, and even underwear. These are high entrance costs that ensure group conformity.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Yes, it's like a total makeover. It's funny to me that people aren't more suspicious of this. When someone moves away, gets wrapped up in a group, and suddenly their whole look and way of talking changes, that’s a sign. The group enforces conformity because that’s how you get everyone doing the same thing. We often stereotype cults as having uniforms, and sometimes they do. Heaven's Gate famously wore the same thing. We think of white robes or the military uniform, which has pages of regulations. It’s all about looking like a six-foot-tall, blonde, blue-eyed American male soldier. The further away you are from that demographic, especially in appearance, the more you stand out. And standing out is the number one rule you don't want to break.

With appearance control, we almost always see regulations around hair, body size, body coverage, and underwear. Starting with hair, think of the first day in the military—buzz cut. Only the men, though. So immediately, women stand out. It’s a moment where they’re showing you, "We own you." Hair is so crucial to coercive control. For most of us, we’ve never seen our own bald heads, so they’re exposing the only part of you that you haven’t even seen naked. I advise men to shave their own heads before joining the military to have that moment of ownership. Hair control is always about controlling attitude. In the Children of God, for example, you weren’t supposed to cut your hair because it was supposed to be a vessel of God’s love. It wasn’t about the hair; it was about how you were supposed to behave with the long biblical hair.

**Scot Loyd:** In the United Pentecostal Church where I grew up, women were also required to wear their hair uncut, often in similar hairstyles. You talk about the emphasis on a bun in the military, a hairstyle that made it difficult for women to do their job, but was still embraced. It wasn’t really about appearance but about regulating behavior. Sermons often tied the submission of women to men to their uncut hair. So, you're right—it had very little to do with appearance and everything to do with controlling behavior.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Exactly. The cult always gives you a reason for these controls that aren’t about behavior. In the military, they say it’s for lice control. But shaving heads doesn’t get rid of lice, and I’ve never heard of gender-based lice that don’t infect women. Same with beards—they claim it’s for gas mask sealing, but then why do special forces guys have beards? It’s about appearance. And this extends into regular America through concepts like professionalism. In the Army, the parallel is "standards." The standard is X, and you need to be this to be professional. In the chapter, I quote the Southern Poverty Law Center, which says professionalism is just racism under another name. It’s there to arbitrate behavior and make you change yourself to fit a mold.

People don’t often realize how much work goes into looking "professional," especially for those who don’t fit the mold. Women, especially, are taught that hair, beauty, jewelry, makeup—all the things that are controlled—are frivolous. But if they were frivolous, we wouldn’t see them being controlled in coercive environments.

**Scot Loyd:** These groups are enforcing constructed identities that aren't authentic to who a person is. They regulate appearance to make it easier for these constructed identities to be sacrificed for the cause. You’re expected to give up your authentic self for the group.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Absolutely. You mentioned the word "arbitrary," and that’s my soapbox. In studying groups and systems, I find that any regulation or legislation that’s arbitrarily applied is used to oppress the least powerful demographics. For example, the main road outside my house has a 30 mph speed limit that everyone goes 40-45 mph on. The cops aren’t pulling everyone over, so it’s legislation that’s arbitrarily applied. In the Children of God, we had general appearance regulations, but we also had a catch-all prohibition on "looking cool." Fast forward

to the Army, where we have hundreds of pages of regulations about appearance, but there’s also a catch-all that allows the commander to say, "You look too faddish." It’s arbitrary and used to control. It’s not operational, but it’s about prescribing behavior and demanding sacrifice.

Appearance control is about prescribing attitude and behavior, which leads us to body size and body coverage. In coercive environments, they generally want you to be skinny, small. This puts you in a brain fog and is a visual representation of self-sacrifice. There's a hierarchy in America that thin is better, but you're never thin enough. You’re constantly striving, and that’s what a cult wants—constant striving. Sometimes it’s not about being skinny; sometimes it’s about being muscular or even large, as we saw in the Twin Flames cult. But it’s always about controlling body size. In the military, they want you to be a skinny, tall runner.

Body coverage is another form of control, usually requiring you to stay covered. There’s a lot of purity culture in coercive control. Cults often use purity requirements, not just in the way we think, but in not putting certain things in your body, soul, or mind. It’s all about self-sacrifice. The cult leader, of course, never has to self-sacrifice—they're always exempt. Sometimes the control is the opposite, like in the Children of God, where it was no bras, and girls and women shouldn’t sleep with underwear. Shyness was the sin of pride. It’s about controlling what parts of your body someone else is allowed to see. I love that Gen Z has decided, "Forget it, our bodies are our bodies."

**Scot Loyd:** That’s refreshing about the younger generations—they’ve embraced authenticity as a value. You mentioned body size, and I want to go back to that point. Your husband, reflecting on his time as a helicopter pilot, realized that it had less to do with his skill and more with the perception of his appearance.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Yes, my husband was a 20-year helicopter pilot who retired from Special Operations, the elite flying unit created after the Iran hostage crisis went wrong. His job required incredible skill, but he said his career advancement depended more on his being a tall, skinny runner than on his skill. The Army arbitrarily chose runtime as a measure of a good soldier. In the Army, especially for officers, there’s this idea of the "elbow gap"—you need to look skinny in uniform. It’s not operational; it’s about appearance control. It’s about prescribing behavior and sacrifice. This arbitrary standard impacts people’s careers, even if they’re highly skilled.

When I started looking at appearance control, I realized how much it affects people. Readers of *Uncultured* pointed out that I had disordered eating, and I realized I’d had an eating disorder for 20 years—first in the cult, then in the military. It’s not uncommon for soldiers to leave the military with serious eating disorders because of the pressure to stay small and skinny.

**Scot Loyd:** I also recall from *Uncultured* that you were very fast. You tell a story about outrunning a lot of the men. Do you think that contributed to your success in the Army? If you hadn’t been as fast or skinny, would you have enjoyed the same success?

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Absolutely not. I always joked that as a woman, I had to run faster, jump higher, and shoot better than all the men, so I ran really fast. I was a good intelligence officer, but a pretty garbage soldier. But nobody realized that for six and a half years because I was a really fast runner. It’s hard to explain, but growing up in high-control groups, you’re taught to be the best, and you’ll sacrifice anything—your mental, physical well-being—just to be at the top of the group.

**Scot Loyd:** That’s interesting because even if you believe the rhetoric of the armed forces—"be all you can be"—what you’re saying is that a lot of it is perception. You were seen as the cream of the crop because you could run fast and were a skinny white girl, but that doesn’t necessarily reflect skill. That should concern all of us if the rhetoric is that we’re the best in the world, but it’s happening based on perception and old stereotypes.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Exactly. Even when it opposes operational success, appearance control is about prescribing behavior and sacrifice. We’re demanding sacrifice, and it must be hard, often visibly hard. That’s why skinny is such a common standard in high-control environments—it’s a sign of self-sacrifice. And then there’s underwear control, which is a common theme in cults. In *Uncultured,* I talk about how the uncles in the cult would do panty checks on the girls at night, and it was as creepy as it sounds. I left it in the book because I realized they inspect our underwear in the military too. If they did it in the cult and the military, it’s about programming and influence or power and control. Underwear control is a taboo, it makes us feel shameful, and it takes away individuality. In the military, your underwear is only inspected in basic training, but the regulation is there, so anyone could technically ask to see your underwear. The final thing is that if you can convince your members that the mission is so important that even their underwear matters, you’ve got them.

**Scot Loyd:** That’s the most powerful point. If something as intimate and personal as undergarments can be regulated, it’s not a far stretch to ask someone to give up their life for the cause. You’ve already given up control of personal details, so the next step isn’t that large. And the fact that in 2024, people are still judging others for their clothing choices shows how deep these ideas of control go.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Exactly. High-control groups work by sometimes having written clothing requirements and sometimes not, but the message is always, "Don’t stand out." That’s true in corporate America, government work, and many other areas. After I sold my book and gained some financial freedom, my first thought was, "I’m going to wear whatever I want for the rest of my life." It’s a big part of deconstructing from cults. I wear wacky outfits because I want to, and I’ve realized that nothing happens when I do. It’s a way of messaging to yourself that you’re in control of your life. It’s also a way to signal to others that you’re not playing these games and aren’t trying to fit in. I really embrace the idea of "Why fit in when you were born to stand out?" after almost three decades of high-control environments.

Appearance control is always about prescribing attitudes, and that leads us to attitude control. There are two aspects of attitude control—emotional suppression and emotional evocation. You’re not allowed to have any attitude that isn’t happy and bubbly. Everything is good, but when you’re told to cry, you cry. This is seen in church cry nights or military funerals, where you’re expected to maintain military bearing until the taps play, then you can let it all out. Both constant emotional suppression and evocation are ways cult leaders control us. We often continue these behaviors even after leaving the cult. We’ve been taught that emotions are dangerous, but we don’t understand that we need emotional release, which can lead to breakdowns. There’s a reason so many of us like sad ballads or country songs—we have this praise kink because that was the music we were allowed to tap into our emotions.

**Scot Loyd:** That’s exactly what I experienced growing up in the United Pentecostal Church. There were two emotions that were rewarded: exuberant happiness and sorrowful lament. There was no nuance in between. When you got into the real world, your responses were either toxic positivity or inappropriate lamenting. We didn’t understand our emotions because they were manipulated in the group. Being tired, isolated, and dependent increases emotional vulnerability and impairs critical thinking, so when you’re in these groups, your emotions are manipulated. When you face real situations, you either don’t know how to respond or respond inappropriately.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** It’s so hard when we walk away from these groups. I noticed this when I became a parent—I didn’t know how to deal with any emotion that wasn’t happy or angry. All of this self-sacrifice, appearance control, emotional suppression, and more lead to isolation, breaking you off from family, friends, and even yourself. Sacrifice is seen as a good thing, but it leads to the cult glaze—the look of cult members who are smiling but have a hundred-meter stare or black eyes. It’s a constant state of disconnection from your own emotions, critical thinking, and needs. The promised reward is that the group will win, that all this sacrifice is for something. When we leave high-control groups, we have to learn to be more selfish but less narcissistic. In cults, our sacrifices feed our egos and make us feel superior, but we have no idea how to self-care.

**Scot Loyd:** In our culture, sacrifice is celebrated for the sake of sacrifice. The death of an American soldier is venerated and deified. I consider myself a patriot, but it can be dangerous to elevate sacrifice without questioning the cause. After 9/11, we saw toxic patriotism, and we stayed in Afghanistan for years because politicians were too scared to pull out and risk the sacrifice of those soldiers being seen as for nothing. But the reality is that if you constantly ask individuals to sacrifice for the group, they will break. That’s why

I don’t think you can have a good cult because constant self-sacrifice ultimately impacts the individual.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Exactly. Every organization’s goal is to perpetuate itself, but if you’re constantly asking someone to self-sacrifice for the group, it’s not sustainable. In cults, one of the things you’re asked to sacrifice is your own health—physical and mental. Both in the Children of God and the US Army, I saw the demonization of medical care. When you need medical care, you’re saying, "I matter more right now than whatever I should be doing for the group." We see cracks in the brainwashing happen during medical emergencies when people realize the cult will let them suffer endlessly in its name. The amount of self-sacrifice you’ve done becomes its own exit cost, making it harder to leave. Cognitive dissonance comes from cults, where people couldn’t walk away even when the apocalypse didn’t happen because they had sacrificed too much. This is why I admire you for walking away and deconstructing after devoting so much of your life to your cult.

**Scot Loyd:** That’s a great point. It’s important to educate yourself and understand that you can walk away from these groups. If you keep sacrificing, whether it’s your health, finances, time, or talent, it will eventually rob you of your life. That’s the tragedy we see too often.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** These extreme groups want your whole life dedicated to them. As we said when we started, living under someone else’s prescribed identity is dangerous for you. But you can walk away, you can make the decision to stop self-sacrificing. In a healthy organization, you should be able to say, "These are my boundaries, and I’m not sacrificing this." However, in most total institutions, cults, and high-control groups, when you decide you’re no longer willing to self-sacrifice, it’s time to go. The group will usually push you out because they don’t want others to realize you can just choose to stop.

**Scot Loyd:** Absolutely. Hopefully, Daniella has piqued your interest, and you’ll pick up her book *Uncultured,* available wherever you buy quality books. It’s a great read. Follow Daniella on social media—she’s all over TikTok, Instagram, and has exclusive content on her Patreon page. Daniella, thank you, as always, for a great conversation.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:** Thank you so much, Scott. Please follow Scott too—he’s a very interesting person on TikTok. Speaking of self-sacrifice, Scott works a real job all day and then comes here in the evening to help record this podcast and make it awesome. Hopefully, we’ll make sure Scott gets enough out of being involved that it’s not constant self-sacrifice. Thank you all so much for listening. *Uncultured* is also on audiobook and available at libraries. On Patreon, I’m reading it out loud one chapter at a time, even if you’re not a paid subscriber. Lots of ways to connect with us and access our content. We’ll be back next week to talk about isolation and how cults separate you from the rest of the world.

**Scot Loyd:** I’m looking forward to it, and I hope that all of you will subscribe, leave a rating, and share our podcast with others. Until next time, I’m Scott Loyd for Daniella Mestyanek Young. We’ll see you on the next episode of *Cults and the Culting of America.*

Published on: August 13, 2024

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Episode 5: The Transcendent Mission

### Summary of Cults and the Culting of America Podcast - Episode on Transcendent Mission

In this episode of "Cults and the Culting of America," hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young delve into the concept of the transcendent mission within cults and high-control groups. They discuss how cult leaders use vague, life-and-death missions to manipulate and retain followers. These missions often promise fulfillment in an unprovable future, making followers feel unique and superior, thus willing to self-sacrifice and endure hardships.

Daniella differentiates the transcendent mission from the sacred assumption, explaining that while the sacred assumption is an unspoken belief (e.g., the leader being the smartest or chosen one), the mission is what recruits and keeps people dedicated. The mission is rarely practical and constantly evolving, ensuring followers never feel they've fully achieved it.

The hosts also touch on the importance of recognizing the signs of manipulative missions, such as their vagueness, constant change, and exclusivity. Daniella advises that it’s okay for individuals to focus on their own well-being and happiness instead of falling prey to manipulative missions.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

**Hosts:** Daniella Mestyanek Young and Scot Loyd

**Topic:** The Transcendent Mission in Cults and High-Control Groups

**Overview:**
In this episode, Daniella and Scot discuss the concept of the "transcendent mission" and how it is used by cult leaders and high-control groups to manipulate and control their followers. They delve into the differences between the transcendent mission and the sacred assumption, the tactics used to recruit and retain followers, and the personal experiences of both hosts in various high-control environments.

**Key Points:**

1. **Introduction to the Transcendent Mission:**
- Cult leaders create a transcendent mission to recruit and retain followers by promising a higher purpose or goal that often cannot be proven or achieved in this lifetime.
- The mission is usually vague, large-scale, and tied to life and death, making it compelling and difficult to question.

2. **Difference Between Transcendent Mission and Sacred Assumption:**
- The sacred assumption is an underlying, often unspoken belief that followers must accept to remain in good standing.
- The transcendent mission is the outward goal or purpose that the group is supposedly working towards, often used as a recruitment tool.

3. **Manipulation Tactics:**
- Cult leaders use the transcendent mission to justify extreme actions and sacrifices from their followers.
- Examples include religious cults promising salvation or enlightenment, and organizations like the military or corporations using missions to motivate self-sacrifice and loyalty.

4. **Personal Experiences:**
- Daniella shares her experiences in the Children of God cult and the US Army, highlighting the similarities in how both groups used a transcendent mission to control members.
- Scot discusses his upbringing in the United Pentecostal Church and how the promise of witnessing the return of Jesus was used to motivate followers.

5. **Challenges of Deconstruction:**
- Leaving a high-control group often involves losing a sense of mission and purpose, which can be terrifying and disorienting.
- Both hosts emphasize the importance of finding a new, personal mission that prioritizes individual well-being and happiness.

6. **Misconceptions About Good and Bad Cults:**
- Daniella argues that there is no such thing as a "good cult" because the core mechanism of coercive control and self-sacrifice is inherently harmful.
- They discuss organizations like Alcoholics Anonymous, which may have cult-like elements despite their seemingly positive mission.

7. **Education and Awareness:**
- Educating people, especially youth, about the signs of coercive control and the tactics used by cult leaders is crucial.
- Recognizing the red flags, such as claims of unique knowledge or promises of easy solutions to complex problems, can help individuals avoid falling into high-control groups.

**Conclusion:**
Daniella and Scot encourage listeners to prioritize their own well-being and question any group or leader that demands extreme self-sacrifice or claims to have all the answers. They highlight the importance of education, critical thinking, and self-defined values in resisting manipulation and control.

**Resources:**
- Daniella's book *Uncultured*
- Daniella's Patreon project *UnAmerican*
- Follow Daniella and Scot on TikTok for more discussions on cults and high-control groups.

Published on: August 6, 2024

Listen on Website

Episode 4: The Sacred Assumption

In this episode of the Cults and the Culting of America podcast, hosts Scot Loyd and Daniella Mestyanek Young dive into the concept of the "sacred assumption," a core belief that underpins a cult's worldview. Daniella explains how cult leaders create and manipulate these worldviews to control their followers, emphasizing that these assumptions don't have to be religious but can revolve around power, status, or other ideals.

The discussion touches on the similarities and differences between cults and religions, the manipulation tactics used by cult leaders, and the challenges of deconstructing these beliefs after leaving a cult. Daniella also shares personal anecdotes about her experiences with the Children of God cult and the US Army, highlighting the parallels between different high-control groups.

Scot and Daniella discuss the ongoing process of deconstruction, the importance of questioning sacred assumptions, and the impact of privilege and societal constructs on our beliefs. They emphasize the need for skepticism and self-defined values, contrasting this with the often rigid and manipulative frameworks of cults. The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to engage with Daniella's work, including her book Uncultured and her Patreon project UnAmerican.

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book:

Uncultured Autograph:

Connect with Daniella on social media

TikTok, Patreon, Instagram
Youtube

Connect with Scot Loyd's social media (TikTok)
Daniella's other podcast: Hey White Women

**Cults and the Culting of America Podcast**

Welcome to the Cults and the Culting of America podcast with scholar of cults, extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership, Daniella Mestyanek Young. I'm your host, Scot Loyd. Welcome to another episode of Cults and the Culting of America. I'm Scot Loyd, along with my friend Daniella Mestyanek Young. Not only is she my friend, but she is a scholar of cults, extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership. Daniella, how are you doing today?

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

I am doing great. I am excited for us to talk about the worldview shift into the transcendent mission and the most common question anyone gets asked about cults, which is: what is the difference between a cult and a religion?

**Scot Loyd:**

Very nicely said. I'm looking forward to this episode. And you're wearing an interesting shirt today. Tell us about that shirt, and if folks want to buy one for themselves or their friends and family, how can they do that?

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Yes, you can find any of the shirts you see me wearing through the links below. I sell them through my social media channels. This shirt says, "The first rule of cults is you're never in a cult," which is the epigraph of my book, *Uncultured*. It's about growing up in the Children of God and joining the US Army. It's also a play on *Fight Club*, which a lot of people don't realize is kind of the cult movie. It really gets to the idea that nobody thinks they're in a cult. Cults are manipulative cons that target people, lie, deflect, and pull you into their worldview. As soon as you realize you're in a cult, you're on your way out. But many people think cults are extreme and rare, when in fact, they're incredibly common. A lot of my life's work is pointing out these parallels and helping people understand the groups and systems we're in.

**Scot Loyd:**

And we're going down the list of characteristics of a cult that you have identified and authored. Today we arrive at the idea of worldview, or as you call it, the sacred assumption. What do you mean by sacred assumption, and why is it a leading characteristic of a cult?

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Oh my gosh, this one is so dramatic. I mean, literally, I was in bed and I sat up and just yelled out, "Hold nothing sacred." It was the answer to the question I'd been asked for 15 years: Why would anyone join a cult? How can people fall for such extremism? Growing up in the Children of God, which was a pedophile cult, it was perfectly understandable how it happened, but difficult to explain to outsiders. First, let me bring this back to that common question: what is the difference between a cult and a religion? This ties into worldview. People ask this all the time, and I say they're not even the same type of thing. A religion is an idea, a noun. A cult is a group. You need a group, even if it's just two people. One of the most pernicious stereotypes is that cults are religious. Every day I see people saying, "Nah, not a cult, because we're not religious." Part of why NXIVM fooled so many people is because it wasn't religious. Large group awareness training, like est or anything ending in "-ony," aren't religious but can still be cults. A cult doesn't give you a religion; it gives you a worldview. The leader spends decades forming this worldview, and to be a member, you must adopt it. It's not presented that way, but it becomes clear once you're in it. The entire worldview is upheld by the sacred assumption. In the Children of God, it was that this random white dude who failed at everything was the prophet of God. As long as you believe that, you can justify anything. The sacred assumption ties closely to the "ends justify the means" mentality and sometimes even precipitates an apocalyptic mindset.

**Scot Loyd:**

The sacred assumption doesn't necessarily have to be theological in nature. It could be anything related to life, like pursuing wealth, status, or power. That's what a lot of these groups offer – a world change, a fulfilling life, or a flourishing existence.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Right. In NXIVM, the sacred assumption was that Keith Raniere was the smartest man on earth. In the US Army, the sacred assumption is that the US flag is worth dying for. You must believe that to be successful in the Army. So, it doesn't have to be religious. It's a worldview. I've recently realized all cults and cult leaders promise "space travel," meaning ultimate enlightenment or achievement will be on another plane, another existence, another life, a different heavenly body – something that can't be proven. This keeps people from achieving enlightenment because if it were real, they'd leave. It's a crucial part of the con and makes it hard to crack people's brainwashing. As long as you choose to believe the sacred assumption, you can justify anything.

**Scot Loyd:**

When you talk about this sacred assumption or worldview, it reminds me of Aristotle's idea that to be persuasive, you need parts of your message that are familiar and parts that are novel. If it's all novelty, people are likely to reject it. But if there's something familiar at the core, it resonates with people. Cult leaders leverage these familiar sacred assumptions that people are already familiar with to control their thoughts and behavior.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Yes, and I think this is exactly what Taylor Swift means when she says, "You know how to ball, I know Aristotle." She's dropping lines because she knows how to pull emotional strings. Cult leaders know how to manipulate you by leveraging these familiar concepts. I don't agree with the stereotype that cult leaders start off good and then turn bad. Cult leaders don't trip and fall into coercive control. They've been figuring this out for a long time. For example, Jim Jones was studying how to manipulate people with preacher voice from a young age. He never cared about civil rights; it was just his way to stand out. This is why religion is often used – it's a pre-existing worldview with a giant body of literature and concepts that a cult leader can tweak and spin to fit their agenda. They use these frameworks to radicalize people. Religions have thought-stopping clichés built in, where at some point, logic ceases, and you go forward on faith. Nefarious leaders who have been honing their manipulative skills know how to use that.

**Scot Loyd:**

Right. And the thought-stopping cliché is, "God told me to do this." When someone plays that card, how do you come back from it? You don't. There's nothing you can say if they claim to have heard from God. Cult leaders play on these collective questions we all have about origin, destiny, meaning, morality, and purpose. They offer answers with certainty, enthusiasm, and passion. The human dynamic often makes us fall in line and not question these sacred assumptions.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Absolutely. And deconstruction tip, Scot, can you repeat that list? We need to make sure this is in the show notes.

**Scot Loyd:**

Sure. The list is origin (where did I come from?), destiny (where am I going?), meaning (what does it all mean?), morality (how do we treat one another?), and purpose (what should I do with my life?).

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

These are the huge questions you have to define for yourself when you leave a cult. You're rejecting a worldview. My three-part model of deconstruction is: first, wake up and physically and mentally leave the cult; second, spend about a decade understanding why you were in a cult and its impact on your personality and identity; and third, move forward with no models. It's overwhelming because you've lost your framework and have to answer these giant questions. This is why we're at risk of cult-hopping afterward, looking for another system with black-and-white rules. I fell into CrossFit and paleo for a while because I was looking for another system to live by.

**Scot Loyd:**

I've experienced that too. My deconstruction is still ongoing. I left the United Pentecostal Church in a slow fade. I went through stages of cult-hopping, embracing different theological perspectives, and coming to terms with the idea that I was exceptional. I had to realize that if I'm special, that's something I define for myself. Likely, I'm just like everyone else, trying to make it through life and determine what is good, how to treat one another, and how to get along. The sacred assumption regulates behavior, but we need autonomy over our lives.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Exactly, Scot. We build these stories to control behavior. Classic fairy tales were scary to keep children safe. The stories we tell ourselves are critical to how we act and operate. One thing to watch out for is groups with anti-gossip policies. Gossip helps us warn each other about bad actors. These stories and worldviews are crucial, and it's not as simple as discarding them. It takes a decade or more to build your own worldview after leaving a cult. We need to understand why we were in a cult and its impact on our identity before building our worldview.

**Scot Loyd:**

Yes, like you, I was born into the United Pentecostal Church and invested a large part of my life in it. Education was my way out. One of the most fascinating books I read early on was Foucault's *Discipline and Punish*, about the

evolution of prisons. He opens with an assassin trying to kill King Louis XVI. The public execution made people rebel, so prisons were designed to regulate behavior. The panopticon's design, where prisoners think they're being watched 24/7, became a model for schools and hospitals. It's a beautiful analogy for high-control groups. The sacred assumption regulates behavior, dictating every aspect of life.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Yes, and military deployment is like a prison sentence in many ways. Initially, it's nice not to have to handle daily tasks, but eventually, you crave autonomy. People want clarity, which cults provide during social confusion. Recording my audiobook made me realize culty things about myself 20 years after leaving the cult. I had to audition for the audiobook and was convinced only I could do it. When I got the offer, I was paralyzed with fear, needing professional validation. This made me realize I had been seeking a mentor to tell me what to do with my life, which isn't a mentor; it's a leader.

**Scot Loyd:**

Exactly, Daniella. I still seek validation and apologize for everything, a holdover from conditioning in the United Pentecostal Church. The sacred assumption gives us something to aspire to, standing in for the leader's gaze. It's terrifying to make decisions on your own, but we're all just trying to figure out how to live our one life. Your book, *Uncultured*, was your way of making your pain meaningful, helping others with their journeys. Realizing we're not as different or special as we think is a poignant part of deconstruction.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Yes, and the realization that we're all in this together, without sacred assumptions keeping us apart, is crucial. Leaders proclaiming sacred assumptions discourage questions. Offering certainty in a volatile world is appealing but unrealistic. Sacred assumptions offer a selfish worldview, ignoring global perspectives. When you see an "us vs. them" mentality, question it. It's built into cult language, with groups claiming moral superiority.

**Scot Loyd:**

Absolutely. Cult leaders use familiar values and frameworks to radicalize people. Your Ten Commandments for good groups, like holding nothing sacred, counteract this. Values can be manipulated; it's the reporting you require that shows true values. For example, if safety is a company's stated value, but they focus on loss numbers, they're not prioritizing safety.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Exactly. And to preempt trolls who say, "not holding anything sacred" is my sacred assumption – approaching beliefs with skepticism is essential. I show this in *Uncultured* at a soldier's funeral, holding doubt that our side is 100% right. General McChrystal's book, *Leaders: Myth and Reality*, emphasizes that soldiers must admit they don't know for sure they're on the side of right.

**Scot Loyd:**

And this idea of binary thinking – right vs. wrong, good vs. bad – is problematic. Our lives are shaped by luck and circumstances. The arrogance of assuming we're right and others are wrong is staggering. Living humbly means recognizing the complexities and uncertainties of life.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Yes, deconstruction is about becoming less narcissistic and more selfish in a healthy way. Recognizing privilege and the accident of birth is crucial. There's no meritocracy; success isn't guaranteed by doing everything right. Grasping sacred assumptions is a con.

**Scot Loyd:**

Well said, Daniella. On that note, we'll conclude this fascinating conversation. I encourage our listeners and viewers to pick up Daniella's book, *Uncultured*, read it, and share it with friends. If you like what you hear, leave us a rating, subscribe, and share the podcast. Thank you for tuning in.

**Daniella Mestyanek Young:**

Thank you, Scot. For more on extremism and related topics, check out my project *UnAmerican* on Patreon, where I share the manuscript and other content. Follow both Scot and me on TikTok for more conversations about cults.

**Scot Loyd:**

Thank you again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on Cults and the Culting of America. Follow Daniella on social media and subscribe to her Patreon for exclusive content. Pick up her book, *Uncultured*. Until next time, I'm Scot Loyd for Daniella Mestyanek Young on the next episode of Cults and the Culting of America.

Published on: July 30, 2024

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Episode Three: The Skinny White Woman

Daniella Mestyanek Young's book: